GI vs. SGI vs. Forged Cavity

[TexasNative]

Hi.  First Time poster, but very long time reader.  Would like some honest feedback.  A little background....

Retried about a year ago early. 58 years old.  Have been working on my game seriously since then and have gone from a long time 11 HI to a 5-6 HI.  Much more confidence.  Play at least once per week and hit balls 3-4 times per week with purpose.  See my instructor about once per month.  Game still needs those last few strokes, but am looking forward to addressing that this year.  My swing speed and center hits are better.

My question is clubs.  I currently play XR Steelheads, Nippon 8950 shafts (S). SS x1.  Driver is 917 with AD DI 6s.  Driver SS about 95-96. Lately, I have noticed that the shafts seem to launch higher and seem a little more flexible. Driver the same.

Should I consider more of a GI or CB club (am a bit uncomfortable with any type of blade, although have played them in the 70's and 80's) matched with appropriate shaft, and if so, what would really be the advantages? 

I have access to launch monitors (unfortunately, not Trackman) and can order clubs to my specs.  My last 2 sets of clubs have been 1/2 inch over with 1 degree up.  I'll fit myself if necessary..have access to the equipment.

Would really like feedback.  Thank you.  Very much appreciate any input.

[colin007]

Welcome to the site, @TexasNative, this is a wonderful place for top notch golf info.

Just as a side note, the process of forging has nothing to do with the shape of the iron. Yes, smaller "players irons" tend to be forged, but there's nothing that dictates that a blade or muscle back needs to be forged.

I'm a big fan of playing an iron that is visually appealing. The tech these days is so advanced that if you like the look of a GI or SGI then you should absolutely go for it.

Edited January 23, 2018 by colin007
Spelling

[TexasNative]

Thank you. Appreciate the welcome. 

I likely didn’t state my question well. 

I would really like to know the advantages with “stepping up” to less of a SGI to more of a players GI ( ie Apex CF 16, TM 790, Mizuno JPX 900, AP3, etc, etc) whether cast or forged  

I like my clubs, but as stated, they seem to launch a little too high and the shafts a starting to feel just a tinge loose. 

I’d like a little lower, more boring flight and just a slightly stiffer feel. Maybe not soft stepping could be a solution. Not sure.  Thanks again. 

[WUTiger]

Sounds like you have gotten your swing muscles in shape, and probably getting mainly centerish hits if you're a 5-6 HDCP.

The Steelhead XR irons are GI as per Golf Digest HotList, but the Maltby MPF system rates them as Ultra Game Improvement. I have 8950GH R-flex shafts in my irons. This is a mid-high launch somewhat low-spinning shaft, but the steep descent angle of the ball helps with the stopping power.

With your driver clubhead speed, I would suggest you might need heavier, firmer shafts in your irons than the 8950GH family.

If you un-softstep the irons, you would need to 4i-tipped shaft into 3i, 5i-tipped into 4i, etc. Basically you would be hardstepping the shafts back to stiff. To retain shaft length, you would have to place a half-inch extender in the butt of all the irons.

If you keep the Steelhead XRs, it would be less hassle to get new, heavier shaft for re-fit, rather than un-soft them.

As for Apex... Our club's senior pro is a Callaway rep, and he has arranged for me to test out Apex irons a couple of times during Callaway visits. Stock shaft is the XP 95, which launches a bit lower and has lower torque than the 8950GH; weight is the same. Callaway PreOwned has a couple dozen of the CF.16 irons in a wide variety of shafts, many which are more robust than the XP.95.

Also consider the Apex.16 Pro irons. Stock shafts are the Project X and the Mamiya Recoil 95/110 graphites. I tried several shafts in the 16 Pro, and seemed to do best with the Recoils. And, being you are over 50, the graphite Recoils would be a lot more friendly to your elbows and wrists than the PXs.

Despite my HDCP, I got better flight out of the 16 Pros than the CF.16.

I'll let others address the driver issue.

[TexasNative]

Thanks. Appreciate the input. 

Was thinking XP 95 or the Modus 105s. Recoils, of course, could be an option. 

[Mr. Desmond]

17 hours ago, TexasNative said:

Thanks. Appreciate the input. 

Was thinking XP 95 or the Modus 105s. Recoils, of course, could be an option. 

Nippon 8950 is known as a softer, higher launching shaft and you are playing it in S flex. The XP95, I believe, is TT's match to the Nippon 8950/950 shaft - I think if you want to stay with steel and are middle aged or older, 56 yrs, then Nippon Pro Modus is the healthy alternative if you do not go graphite. Recoil 95 is a quality, value option. I would suggest graphite for your long term health - avoiding shoulder and elbow issues.

You may not need new irons, but a reshaft and refit for lie angle, etc. It's always good to get fit if you are looking for a new head/shaft compbo. Tough to get fit for shaft unless you go to a store and get their Steelheads in different shafts and hop on a monitor.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Mr. Desmond

[TexasNative]

Thank you. That sounds like a good plan for me.

I’ll try out the Modus 105 and the Recoils to get a feel and see what the numbers tell me.

Hopefully I will achieve my goal of a lower ball flight without having to buy an entire new iron set. 

.....But, would still like to know from those with knowledge, what are the advantages of more of a players GI iron (ie JPX 950, Ap3, CF 16, P790, etc) over the Steelhead XR’s (or any similar head) for a 5.9 HI?

I like my clubs, but wonder if another design might fit my game a little better. 

Welcome any comments. Thanks. 

[colin007]

48 minutes ago, TexasNative said:

Thank you. That sounds like a good plan for me.

I’ll try out the Modus 105 and the Recoils to get a feel and see what the numbers tell me.

Hopefully I will achieve my goal of a lower ball flight without having to buy an entire new iron set. 

.....But, would still like to know from those with knowledge, what are the advantages of more of a players GI iron (ie JPX 950, Ap3, CF 16, P790, etc) over the Steelhead XR’s (or any similar head) for a 5.9 HI?

I like my clubs, but wonder if another design might fit my game a little better. 

Welcome any comments. Thanks. 

I don't have the research on hand, but testing was done with an Iron Byron and it showed that on centered hits, the blade shots will be more on line and slightly longer than an SGI. The SGI shots will have a greater dispersion. Conversely, on off centered hits, the blade shots will be shorter, the SGI shots will lose less distance but potentially will be farther off line.

Edit - found something, not sure if the link works but try it

https://clubsg.skygolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/5-3722-Blades_Versus_Cavity_Backs_A_Golf_Club_Epiphany.html

Edited January 24, 2018 by colin007
Forgot something

[TexasNative]

Thank you. Informative article. 

Btw. Tried the Modus 105’s and the Recoil 95’s today.  Both felt great.

i went ahead and ordered the Recoils. Never played graphite in my irons, but I’m sure my joints will thank me. 

Thanks for the recommendations. I’m excited. 

[onthehunt526]

On 1/23/2018 at 10:17 AM, TexasNative said:

Hi.  First Time poster, but very long time reader.  Would like some honest feedback.  A little background....

Retried about a year ago early. 58 years old.  Have been working on my game seriously since then and have gone from a long time 11 HI to a 5-6 HI.  Much more confidence.  Play at least once per week and hit balls 3-4 times per week with purpose.  See my instructor about once per month.  Game still needs those last few strokes, but am looking forward to addressing that this year.  My swing speed and center hits are better.

My question is clubs.  I currently play XR Steelheads, Nippon 8950 shafts (S). SS x1.  Driver is 917 with AD DI 6s.  Driver SS about 95-96. Lately, I have noticed that the shafts seem to launch higher and seem a little more flexible. Driver the same.

Should I consider more of a GI or CB club (am a bit uncomfortable with any type of blade, although have played them in the 70's and 80's) matched with appropriate shaft, and if so, what would really be the advantages? 

I have access to launch monitors (unfortunately, not Trackman) and can order clubs to my specs.  My last 2 sets of clubs have been 1/2 inch over with 1 degree up.  I'll fit myself if necessary..have access to the equipment.

Would really like feedback.  Thank you.  Very much appreciate any input.

What do you mean by Forged Cavity? Do you mean a Players model with a smaller cavity and not a lot of offset (Titleist CB, Mizuno MP-18 SC, Exotics CBX), or a GI forged cavity with the weight moved around with more offset (JPX-EZ Forged, AP2)?

OEMs have offered forged models of GI irons for a bit now that's why I ask...

In reading your post it seems that you eschew blades, like I eschew hybrids. 

Models to consider as a 5-6 handicap.

Titleist AP2

Ping i200 (that's the new one)

Taylormade P770

Mizuno MP-18 (some sort of combo, MMC long, SC mid, blade 9-PW).

Tour Edge Exotics CBX Forged

Even with the proper head the shaft is important. You said you are launching higher with you're irons, are you looking for this, or do you want to launch it lower with your irons?

With that information, I'd have a better idea of what shaft(s) to recommend trying out.

 

[TexasNative]

By forged cavity, I mean irons in the same category as AP2, JPX 900, CF16 Pros, Ping I200, etc.   Not necessarily a pure blade. 

Yes, I would like more of a lower ( not low) boring ball flight. 

 

What I really would  like are some opinions on what would be the advantages, if any, of this type of club for me given my HI over my current setup  

 

New shafts are coming, and hopefully they will help, but am open to other inputs. 

[onthehunt526]

11 minutes ago, TexasNative said:

By forged cavity, I mean irons in the same category as AP2, JPX 900, CF16 Pros, Ping I200, etc.   Not necessarily a pure blade. 

Yes, I would like more of a lower ( not low) boring ball flight. 

 

What I really would  like are some opinions on what would be the advantages, if any, of this type of club for me given my HI over my current setup  

 

New shafts are coming, and hopefully they will help, but am open to other inputs. 

As someone with a similar index as yours, if you hit the ball solidly (which if you are a 5-6 you probably do), a few things.

1. Tighter dispersion. As you go from a GI club to even a forged GI or player's cavity, your distance control and shot pattern will be closer. So your birdie putts will be closer to the hole than they are currently.

2. Ability to work the ball if need be.

3. If you miss, you can feel the miss. Not as much as a blade, but definitely more than a cast-GI head. Especially if you went with say an AP2 or JPX-900 Tour. 

I'm personally going to blades this year (yes musclebacks).

@TexasNative, May I ask you something? Would you be a candidate for a combo set? What I mean, is cavity-backs in the longer irons, and blades in the shorter irons. Because I think if you have solid contact most of the time, you'd be a candidate for MP-18s... But do MMC in the longer irons or even an MMC Fli-Hi 4-iron, MMC 5-6, CB 7-8, MB 9-PW. If not, I think Mizuno MP-18 MMC's would be a great fit for you.

[TexasNative]

Thanks so much for the reply. 

I think a combo set would be a great idea to consider. I love the Mizuno’s. My last set before the Steelheads were the JPX825 forged. I really didn’t have trouble hitting them, and my HI was higher then. And of course, the feel was great on center hits  

I guess I should demo some blades, esp in the lower end of the bag. 

My theory has been, golf is hard, why make it harder, but precision in the 7-G, and more birdie chances (10 feet from the flag rather than 25 feet) makes sense. 

Thank you again. 

[TexasNative]

Well. I pulled the trigger. 

New Rogue Pro irons with Recoil 95 shafts. Stiff. Vokey 54 and 58 with Recoil 110s.

Hit them for the first time today and man, do they feel great, with the mid boring flight I was looking for. 

Also, built a new to me Driver , M2 with AD DI 6s shaft. Excellent results. 

Thanks to all for the quality advice and comments. 

[Mr. Desmond]

Congrats!

Nice setup. Try the Ping G400 in your DI6  shaft if the M2 does not treat you right.

[onthehunt526]

2 hours ago, TexasNative said:

Well. I pulled the trigger. 

New Rogue Pro irons with Recoil 95 shafts. Stiff. Vokey 54 and 58 with Recoil 110s.

Hit them for the first time today and man, do they feel great, with the mid boring flight I was looking for. 

Also, built a new to me Driver , M2 with AD DI 6s shaft. Excellent results. 

Thanks to all for the quality advice and comments. 

Sort of thought you would have went with Apex Pro.

Callaway hates me, though.

Anyway, the Rogue Pro irons are good for a player of your caliber. You definitely will enjoy them, I even liked hitting the Rogue Pro (I think the demo had a True Temper DG AMT R300 shaft) I was more demoing the club for the shaft though. (As I'm a Tour Edge Exotics "ambassador")

[Typhoon92]

Nice choices there...the recoil is one of those shafts where u forget it's graphite.  Works just as well as steel.

M2 Di6 combo is a winner too.  My pro has the stiff and he's around 105 swing speed and he loves it.  

Enjoy!