Does a strong grip promote slicing?

[HytrewQasdfg]

Does a strong grip promote slicing?

I know it is counter to accepted wisdom, but the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that instead of curing a slice, a strong grip actually will cause some people to slice.

Some of the things that have led me to this idea include:

Wrist mechanics.
Spinning a ball in ping pong.
What is cocking the wrist?
The strong grip and centrifugal force.

Wrist Mechanics

Hold your left arm in front of you, hand flat, palm down. Take your other hand and grab your forearm a couple of inches behind the wrist. Move you flat hand laterally (thumb to pinky). Do you feel any movement in your forearm? Very little. Now move you flat hand up and down (palm to back). Feel any forearm movement this time either? Again, not much. Now, try and move your flat hand down at a 45 degree angle (in what looks like a chopping motion) without moving your forearm. Feel anything? You should have felt your forearm rotating. Try moving in hand in any direction other than thumb-pinky or front to back. You should feel your forearm rotating.

Your wrist only flexes in two directions. Thumb-pinky and palm-back. All other movements require you to rotate your forearm.

One handed club exercise.

Grab a golf club and line up behind a ball with a strong grip. Take your right hand off the club. Now move your left hand thumb-pinky a few times and watch what the club face does. It cuts across the face of the ball at an outside to in angle. This is the type of quick, short, chopping motion you use with a ping-pong paddle to cause the ball to curve (and I'll call it the ping-pong paddle golf head movement from now on.)

If you are the type of golfer that cocks their left wrist in the manner described in Hogan’s book (as a crook in the left writs, which is actually a thumb-pinky flex of the wrist) then you are probably doing this quick, short, chopping movement as you release just before you hit the ball. Hogan adopted this grip because he was fighting a tremendous HOOK (and you can see how this would be a good counter to a hook), but if your natural tendency is to slice, then this movement will make it worse. This brings us to...

What is cocking the wrist?

Someone on the internet has done a better job of describing it than me:

"The Question: How does the right wrist correctly cock in the golf swing? Demonstrate your answer by extending your right arm in front of you, as in reaching out to shake some body’s hand. Now, cock the right wrist, as it should in your swing.

The Answer: If you bent the right wrist back on itself, forming a concave at the back of the wrist, then you are correct. But if you angled the wrist up to the sky, with the back of the wrist essentially flat, then you have been fooled by some of slight-of-hand; it sure looks like that should happen! Read on, and your game will improve."

The correct way to cock you right hand is by flexing your wrist palm-back. There is no thumb-pinky flexing involved.

Repeat the one handed club exercise you did before. Only this time notice the face angle of your club. You should see that as you flex your wrist toward your thumb, the face angle opens. As you flex your writs toward your pinky, the face angle closes.

The strong grip and centrifugal force.

There are two ways people are taught to make a strong grip. Rotating both hands to the right (keeping palms parallel), and rotating just the left hand to the right (keeping the palm of the right hand at a right angle to the ball path as it is in a neutral grip.) I don't want to argue about which is the right way to make a strong grip, as I feel both promote the ping-pong paddle movement of the club head.

Try this experiment. Take a neutral grim. Then take your normal backswing and stop at the top (it is important you do this at your normal speed so the normal centrifugal force will be in play.) Now freeze your wrists in place, then lower your arms and rotate your body until the head is back behind the ball. Your will probably find that the face is square to the ball.

Try the same movement with a strong grip. You will probably find that the face is open to the ball. Why? Centrifugal force.

When you backswing with a neutral grip, the centrifugal force created by the club head is inline with the back of your right hand. It is pulling your hand in a palm-back direction.

When you backswing with a strong grip (either style) the centrifugal force is pulling you hands back at an angle somewhere between a palm-back flex and a thumb-pinky flex. The result is your wrists flex not only palm-back (in a correct cocking motion), but thumb-pinky towards your thumb, which opens the club face.

What happens when you swing from this position, with your wrists flexed in both directions (towards the back and towards the thumb)? If you don't unflex your wrist laterally (thumb-pinky) you'll hit the ball with an open face. Unfortunately, unflexing your wrist laterally creates the ping-pong paddle effect at ball impact. Almost a mini outside-in swing. One so small you may not even realize you are doing it (and that happens too quickly to have any hope of controlling it.)

I know this is counter to what everyone teaches. A strong grip inhibits a slice and promotes a hook, but after seeing person after person go to a strong grip (and learn to stop swinging outside-in) yet continue to slice I'm convinced something else is going on.

[donkba]

why you are going into all this wrist mechanics and ping pong stuff? a strong left hand grip will not cause a slice because the hands are rotating anti clockwise (right hander), which is closing the clubface and you hit a slice if the clubface is open. i am confused about how you cannot think that?

[michaeljames92]

i dont really think a strong grip or neutral grip really matters and mostly your swing path does. some people go against all of the don'ts in golf swings and still can hit a golf ball straight. at the end of the day if you can get your club face straight at impact who cares what you do before.

[rudygu]

When I use a strong grip my left hand naturally wants to return to a more neutral position - in effect closing the club face. To me, there is very little difference between taking a stronger grip and just taking a normal grip with the club face closed.

[HytrewQasdfg]

why you are going into all this wrist mechanics and ping pong stuff? a strong left hand grip will not cause a slice because the hands are rotating anti clockwise (right hander), which is closing the clubface and you hit a slice if the clubface is open. i am confused about how you cannot think that?

It's not the rotation I'm talking about. You can actually hit a slice with a closed club face if the angle of the path the club head is traveling is going across the desired ball flight path from outside to in (I probably need pictures.)

A strong grip causes you to "cock" your hands towards your thumbs (laterally) at the top of your swing due to circular forces. If your swing uncocks towards the pinky during the downswing your clubhead will have an outside to in motion that causes a slice. I used the ping-pong example because I thought it would be easy for most people to understand. Most people have played ping-pong and have learned that if you swipe across the ball it will cause the ball to curve. That same little swiping motion is what happens when you uncock you hands from the thumb towards the pinky on a downswing (which causes the golf ball to curve.)

[golf_junkie27]

Here's what I read regarding a strong grip:

A more passive release is necessary when the grip is in a strong position. If the release matched that of the weaker grip, the result would be a nasty hook. Instead, the body must be more aggressive through impact to keep the hands arms from actively rotating the clubface. As a result, the left arm remains higher than the right after impact, the shoulders and hips continue to rotate and are more open to the target, and the head and chest keep pace with the club, further preventing the hands from taking over.

As for slicing the ball, in addition to having an open club face and coming over the top/outside in, it's imperative that you look at your alignment. Most of the times, for amateurs, it's very difficult to compensate for poor alignment.

[Ringer]

YES!!!

You learn to block (holding the forearm rotation) in order to keep the face square through impact. Meanwhile your body is turning and pulling the club inside. Voila.. cut/slice.

Understand the direction the club travels as it strikes the ball is going to cause friction on the ball which will rotate the ball. That rotation is then sidespin.

[Ringer]

When I use a strong grip my left hand naturally wants to return to a more neutral position - in effect closing the club face. To me, there is very little difference between taking a stronger grip and just taking a normal grip with the club face closed.

There is no difference. That is in fact how I fix students grips. Rotate the face to match their hands, then ask them to square the face to the ball.

[mikelz]

Does a strong grip promote slicing?

I have seen this happen and have duplicated it.

Seems to me that you can get your hands too "far behind" the squaring of the face, don't catch up and hit a vicious punch-slice. People used to call it "motorcycle grip". I don't know it if still has a common name.

[rudygu]

There is no difference. That is in fact how I fix students grips. Rotate the face to match their hands, then ask them to square the face to the ball.

That is exactly how I take my grip. It ends up looking like a weak grip, but results in a nice draw (as long as I get the back of my left hand square to the target at impact).

[sirshanksalot]

I've always read that using a strong grip from a weak/neutral will help prevent you from slicing.

[HytrewQasdfg]

I've always read that using a strong grip from a weak/neutral will help prevent you from slicing.

That's the common wisdom, and I'm sure for most people it works out exactly like that. Your forearms naturally want to rotate to a neutral positon on the downswing, so you start with a square face and the hands rotated to the right. By the time the downswing is finished, you hands are in neutral position (both palms vertical) and you have a closed club face.

A strong grip though, is really just a compensation for a defect in your swing. IMHO, whenever you introduce a compensation to cover a swing defect, you introduce at least two more swing defects. So I tried to think, what defects would a strong grip compensation produce? Difficulty in correctly cocking the right wrist, and a tendency to uncock you hands laterally (thumb-pinky) and thus produce the ping-pong paddle ball spinning effect (which produces a slice) seemed to make sense from what I could analyze. I guess without a high speed camera I couldn't prove it, but given the number of players that use tremendously strong grips and still slice, something isn't adding up.

[wachesawgolfer]

I think a slice is largely the result of an outside in swing path and a strong or weak grip may promote that path direction depending on your swing mechanics. In ping pong to make the ball go right you cut across it left, not attempt to open or close the face of the paddle. Golf is no different, same geometry applies. You want a grip that is basically sound and allows the face of the club to rotate back and through the swing with a correct swingpath to the type of shot or direction you are seeking. Try to take a neutral grip which allows the hands to parallel each other and turn the shoulders fully back and through maintaining the same grip and pressure throughout. Gee, if we all could only do that...

[allin]

I believe that peoples start naturally a certain way. Consider how your hands hang at your sides naturally. That is your neutral position. What is your strong or neutral grip starts from this position.

[CodeRed657]

i believe it does promote slicing. i noticed during my range sessions and rouds of golf that when ever i weaken my grip to try and fade it, i hook it instead, and when i strengthen my grip, i block/slice it. ive read somewhere that a weaker grip can encourage a more active release.