JonMA1

I never said the golf swing was natural. In fact I said almost the opposite in a previous post. In the post you quoted above I said weight shift in other sports is almost natural. Weight shift while throwing an object, for example, does not require instruction.

You are exactly right about using weight shift in other sports. It’s almost natural. But what I’m describing is a sort of mental block. I’ve recorded plenty of video of swings at a ball where my weight shift is ok and contact is good. Yet it’s been impossible thus far for me to make it part of my swing on the course. (Still working on it.) I can only guess that a few others struggle as well with what they are perfectly capable of doing physically and what they actually do.

I do as well. I don’t believe our practice swings are natural, I think the opposite is true. Our practice swings are the result of hours in front of the mirror and a lot of hard work trying to incorporate the 5 keys. My crappy swing at the ball is my natural swing that simply takes over. I’ve seen it a lot on the course with other players who struggle even though the flaws vary. I’ve watched many players keep their heads relatively steady and make a centered full turn on their practice swings only to sway everything back and then forward just before they skull their shots.

I don’t think the video is complete bs. From what I saw, it has less to do with a natural swing and more to do with how some of us discard some of the good things we might be doing on our practice swing once we hit a ball. I don’t know how to fix this (wish I did), but I’m not sure that practicing by looking away from the ball would help.

Even if that were true (which it isn't), it wouldn't be for long Henry. You've had a couple of tough rounds but you'll be back to breaking 90 very soon and I'll go back to struggling for a while. That's what makes the game so addictive. It's hard to hold onto any ground we gain.

Despite the decent scores I've enjoyed lately, I have to get back to focusing on key #2. I had a lesson today where my instructor and I played a few holes. I played well (for me)...drove the ball well, putted ok, wedges and short approaches were good. But I could feel myself falling back after every shot. He told me my overall game was in good shape but we went to the range afterwards to work on getting my weight forward. He made some suggestions that I'm going to work on. Wish I had his confidence that we can fix this. It feels good to have moved the needle in regards to my scores, but it drives me crazy that I still play with my weight on my back foot or that even when I get a tiny bit better at this it's so easy to revert back. It's like I'm missing something really obvious. It shouldn't be this hard... just shift my weight to the left side. Man, I sound like a broken record.

Ok, I get you. Sorry. Since I don't compete often, the closest thing I can relate to with what you're talking about is when faced with a question of either playing it safe or getting closer to the pin, especially when I have a good round going and there's at least something on the line. For the last month or so, I've chosen the latter. Mentally, it's kind of a "make the decision, execute the shot and live with the results" kind of thing. I know it's not the same thing as what you're describing, but there is some pressure. I don't know, maybe putting that little bit of pressure on myself will help should I ever compete.

Are you unable to practice because of work or something equally important @Hardspoon? Because I suspect that virtually everyone on this site would suffer if they went a month without practice. I guess my point would be to not beat yourself up over this. The game is hard enough when we practice regularly.

Would you not agree that some of us care far more than we should? And if so, wouldn't making a bit of an adjustment not only be possible but necessary? I don't mean not caring at all, just caring at a more reasonable level.

All it really takes is asking if anyone minds a little music playing and then setting the volume at a reasonable level. From the OP's description, it doesn't sound like the music was very loud so maybe it wasn't inappropriate, but I've never understood playing music as loud as some folks do in a public area. Christ, they have this new invention called earbuds which allows one to listen to whatever crap they want without forcing others to. There are some places where I find it appropriate. I've come to expect it at the gym for example. Maybe the driving range has become one of those places. But even then, if the music is so loud that others cannot hear what ever it is they're listening to with their earbuds, it just seems obnoxious. As much as I love music, there are genres that I f'ing hate. And I can't imagine forcing others to listen to my poor taste in music.

I'm still not sure how much impact the mental game has, but I believe there is some impact. So I guess those would be my two words. Personally, staying in the present seems to help me. This would include putting the right amount of thought into the last shot - regardless of the result - and then moving my thoughts on to the next. Am I going to look away in disgust from a crappy putt because I know it started off line, or am I going to watch it so see if there's a slight break at the end? If I top an iron shot, should I immediately forget it and assume it was an anomaly, or try and figure out why it happened and apply it to the next shot? And as far as a good result, I want to enjoy it for a few seconds before switching my thoughts to my next shot. The mental game (to me) also means that I put the right amount of thought into my next shot. I am convinced that my short game is worse on some days simply due to a lack of concentration. I can't put backspin on a pitch, or hit a flop shot that goes almost straight up and dies when it hits, or control distance out of the sand. Those are all examples of physical/skill limitation. But a chip is a pretty easy shot to control... until I take it for granted and fail to concentrate. On days when I make a point of really focusing on the short game, it seems to be better. My last example of the mental game is one I'm beginning to improve upon. A big push from my instructor is "no practice swings after address"... "swing back, swing through". This advice probably doesn't apply to many others, but I would be thinking about mechanics at address, on my take-away, my shoulder turn, hip turn, how straight my lead arm is .... you get the idea. Not only very choppy, but at times I'd literally think of and apply a change as I started the downswing. I'm trying to accept my present skill level and play the best golf I can within that level. That said, my present skill level isn't very good and is - by a wide margin over the mental game - the reason my scores remain high.

I don't hit my wedges nearly as far as you on my full swings, but it's the same idea. From what I've read, better players and are very good at it. I've kind of taken this to the extreme by changing my stance on these partial wedge and 9i shots. It's not good form, but until I can fix some issues with my swing, it's a method that usually gives me predictable contact. As far as distance, I don't mark my clubs as some do. 60 yds with my gap wedge is a feel as far as where to grip and how long the swing should be. Sometimes it's on, and other times not so much. This is just my opinion (and I'm not very good), but I think this can be applied to longer clubs as well. The stock distances of all my clubs are just a base point. Not only does elevation, wind, tree limbs, and the lie dictate what club I pull, sometimes it's just how well I feel I'm playing at the time and whether there's trouble in front of or behind the target.

Yes. I do it all the time. It's a great method that very few golfers are aware of. Occasionally, someone will argue that it isn't legal. When that happens, I'll place my club head close to their shin and then kick the club head to cause it to strike their shin. As he's hoppin' around on one foot holding his leg, I'll turn to the others in the group and ask "anyone else think this isn't legal?".

https://www.gamegolf.com/player/JonMa1/round/2367317 https://www.gamegolf.com/player/JonMa1/round/2367562 Shot a couple 44's to break 90 again. For the last month or so, I've been playing the type of golf I've been hoping to play for several years now. Today I finally had a round I could apply towards my HC. I've had some personal shit to deal with for the last week or so and couldn't practice properly. I was unsure how it would go and I feel fortunate to have kept it up. I don't know how long this will last, but it's enjoyable golf. Not the best ball striking (irons) or short game today, but I did drive the ball with a lot less left to right spin (no Idea why). I kept everything in play and ended the round using the same ball I started with. There were a couple lucky shots that went through instead of staying in the trees, so I guess there was enough luck to offset the duffs. I'm curious to see how I play a longer, tougher course that I'm not used to. If I get some time off, I might take a trip to the middle of state and play a random course.

I had to back off on caring intensely about the results this year. I had to in order to keep playing. But I don't think I'm typical. I was stuck at the extremes of playing very poor golf and, at the same time, caring far too much about results. That's kind of bad combination. When I was told to disregard the results, I think the intent was almost 100% literal. I don't know yet if it was meant to be something I do forever, but I think it might have been something I need to do more of now. Of course I can't completely disregard results any more than I can disregard the quality of any other thing I do in life. But I can be realistic about expectations and accept there will be poor shots at my level. My game is what it is after all. Keeping a level head and learning how to practice on the right things is likely the only way I'll improve. Maybe there's a level of caring that is optimal and dependent upon an individuals personality? (I don't know... may be talking out of my ass a little.) But I do believe that when the results have that level of control over how much I enjoy the game, it's time to turn it down a notch. Well-stated.

Agreed. And I stand corrected about how close Jack was to DJ as far as distance. Back in the 70's, a common belief was that weightlifting would hinder athletes, slow them down. I'd heard plenty of times from baseball coaches that "getting bulked up will mess up your arm". While I wasn't involved in golf as a youth, I can imagine that might have been the sentiment with that sport as well. After all, golf is 100% finesse (sarcasm).

I think if anything, this tells me that Jack was an incredible athlete. Given time to practice with it, I’m sure DJ would be hitting a bit further, but the idea that Jack might have been this close to DJ is a bit of a surprise to me.

I have to admit, my distances are not as predictable as they used to be. Probably because I've slowed everything down to try and make my swing a little better. Generally speaking, my 6i was my 150 yd club for a long time with 10 yard gaps between each irons. Even when my scoring was higher, I was always amazed at how consistently close my distances were - so long as I made ok (not necessarily great) contact. Lately, it's hard to say. I'll often take a longer club and swing easier for no other reason than to try and control my weight shift. (When I swing hard, I tend to finish off-balance and back on my trail foot.) According to GameGolf, here are my last 15 rounds vs my "stock" full-swing distances (carry plus roll)... GG Desired 9i: 109 125 8i: 129 130 7i: 142 140 6i: 170 150 5i: 166 160 4i: 174 170 4h: 188 ?? This is where GG stats are a little deceptive. I would never pull my 6i if faced with a forced carry of 150 yards. There are a couple tee shots from an elevated green where I often use that club which kind of pad the numbers. GameGolf also disregards duffs - of which there are a lot. My driver is averaging 220yds according to GG for those same 15 rounds.

I find my 5w difficult to hit from the rough unless it's sitting up on a good lie. From what I've read, that seems to be the case with many others. So maybe a 3h would be a good club for that type of shot. But if I'm hitting it well, the 5w is one of my favorite clubs from the fairway for my second shot on long par 4s or most par 5s. I don't play a lot of long par 3's, but for any over 180, it's a good club off the tee. I tend to get decent height and have held a few greens with it. I went through two or three years where I would top it badly on a regular basis, but that isn't happening as often this year. This is what I'm hoping might happen if I make the change. The confidence thing is important to me. Obviously, it's lacking with my long irons right now since I'm considering a change. But that comes and goes. When I played Arcadia Bluffs earlier in the year, I played from tees a bit too far back. I was forced to hit a lot of approach shots with my 4i but was making very good contact and even hitting greens with it. Lately, it just seems like a struggle to make good contact and reach the distance I need.

So true. And even a small adjustment can result in substantial improvement. I loaned LSW to my playing partner. All he did was tee the ball up a little higher and he gained probably another 10 yds on average. Another example is my drives that slice lose 20+ yds over those those that draw or fade slightly. Reduce the frequency of those slices and my average goes up. Sure, there are many golfers who are clueless as to how short they hit. But it doesn’t mean everyone is. There are plenty of guys at any course who regularly hit 250+.

Trust me, that's not what you'll be known as.

I'm curious about what hasn't changed. Today's game can be maddening on some days, and completely relaxing on others. Friends talk trash, but still compliment each other's good shots. We walk away from a really good or really poor round knowing that the next will likely be different. There's that eternal hope that our next round will be our best ever or that we'll somehow be able to figure some of this stuff out. We steal every chance we can to do something related to our game, whether it's practicing chip shots in the yard, or hurrying up to finish our chores so we can get in a quick 18. Despite all the differences between today's game and yesterday's, there has to be some similarities @BCoggins?

Lots of good info here. I think the best thing would be for me to continue carrying both. I practiced with my 4i tonight and it took me a long time to start making good contact - not uncommon. Really had to slow everything down. But boy, once I finally get the right combination of whatever the hell it is, it's nice watching the ball jump off the face of those clubs - even if that only happens 50% of the time. My thoughts are that the longer irons really expose some of my poor mechanics where I might be able to get away with a little bit of a flip, for example, with my mid-irons. I don't know, just a random thought. For the hybrid and 5w, I just feel like my swing is different. It isn't like I never hit poor shots with those clubs, but I have to have that kind of distance and those clubs just seem to make it easier to obtain of late. I wonder if wanting to get better with those long irons isn't a similar concept to a high capper (like me) wanting to use players irons.

I'm not asking so much for advice as much as thoughts and experiences that might help me make a decision.... so yeah, I guess that's kind of the same thing as advice:). After a few years of not using a hybrid, I put one back in the bag this year. It's a 4h from my old Adams A4 set. Initially, I was using it for select shots... hitting out of thick rough, trying to get more height when I needed it.... things like that. But for the last few weeks, I've opted on occasions to use it from fairway lies for approach shots with some success. I've owned my current iron set for a few years and the fact that it included a 4i was one or the reasons I bought it. While I absolutely love the feel of hitting a 4 or 5 iron well, I'm starting to wonder if that is really helping my game. My game golf stats don't seem to reflect my lack of confidence. In fact, when I looked up my distances (just now), I was surprised to see the averages were as high as they are. But I do tend to duff these clubs more often. (My bag consists of Driver, 5w, 4h, 4i-gw, sand wedge and putter.) If I put a lot of work into these long irons, it can carry to the course. But monopolizing practice time like that doesn't make sense. My questions are, how many others decided to replace their long irons with hybrids? Why did you replace them? Or for those who carry both, what factors determine which club you pull.

Pretty much my opinion. Plus, I’ve seen a few guys who have an overall poor game but can consistently hit long drives. Not common but it does occur.