Fourputt

Mine too, and it is not even a private club... public course men's tournament club. For some strange reason, we thought that they documented all of the rules because they intended that they should all be used. What a silly idea!

One quick OT comment then I'm done... I can do what I do in part because I don't play the back tees on any course any more. I'm almost 72, and for me, the difference in length between 3W and driver is not that great. I can't seem to get rid of the power fade on the driver, whereas I can do so with the 3W. I generally keep it between straight and about a 5 yard fade, while the driver can slice off line as much as 50 yards when the wind is wrong. If I can do it, I see no reason why any other player can't do similar. Part of it is psychological... I don't feel that I have to swing as hard with the 3W. That lets me keep the club under better control, I make better contact, the ball goes straighter, and I'm in better shape for the next shot, even if that next shot is still a 5W or 7W. At my age, I'm better with my fairway woods than I am with my irons. Keeping the ball in play keeps me moving at a better pace and makes for better scores.

I'm the opposite. I was never especially athletic - far more a nerdy type. I took up golf in a semi-serious way when I was in my 30's, although I'd payed a bit prior to that. I reached 10 handicap in 1990, when I was 43, and that without really doing much work for it, just playing on weekends, and a couple of half hour lessons during the 6 years prior. I remained at that point until I was in my 60's, my handicap moving back and forth between 10 and 12. I was a decent driver of the ball, but generally one club shorter with my irons than most of the guys I played with. I never knew how far I actually hit any shot until I got my first GPS, and I'm not really sure when that was, but I had to be near 60 or just over. At that time my typical drive was 240-250, but I hit several GPS measured drives over 300 yards between age 60 and 65, the longest at 323. Then we moved to an island in the Bahamas for 2½ years, and I played exactly 8 rounds over that entire period and the year after we moved back to Colorado. My game has never recovered fully from that nearly 4 year layoff. For me, that was a critical time in my golf game and when I got back to the game in 2015 at age 68, my swing sucked and my distance was off by 50 yards from what it had been in 2011. I've resolved myself to being shorter off the tee, and I'm gradually making sense of the disaster that my swing had become, but at age 72 (in 2 months), my game is what it is. I'll still play, still enjoy it, and I still play tournaments with my old men's club, even though I live 2+ hours away from Denver now (our last tournament for the year is this Saturday, 2 man better ball). I know that I will never be long off the tee any more, so I focus on getting better with my fairway woods. I now carry driver, 3½ wood, 5 wood, 7 wood, and they get more play than any irons except my wedges. I hit the 3W almost as far as my driver, because I can keep it straighter, so I play it quite often from the tee. For my game, accuracy still trumps length.

I would disagree with this conclusion. Although it depends somewhat on the clubs themselves, all else being equal, a 3 wood or 4 wood is going to be more accurate than a driver, if for no other reason than you won't hit it as far, so it won't be as far off target when it comes to rest. Most bogey and worse golfers hit varying degrees of a slice, and when that is your typical ball path, it will normally be less pronounced with a fairway wood than with a driver. I speak both from personal experience and from observation of others over my 40 years of playing the game. I played 9 holes in a 35-40 mph gale on Friday, decided to leave the driver in the bag, and I hit 6 of 7 fairways off the tee with my 15° Mizuno 3 wood, most were against or across the wind (only the 150 yard par 3 8th hole was straight downwind). I also hit the green on the 195 yard uphill par 3 2nd, a hole on which I NEVER hit the green... only once in the last 2 seasons of league play. I like my weak 3 wood (call it a 3½ wood)... maybe not as long as a 13° wood, but easy to hit from a tight fairway lie and even from many rough or hardpan lies. It has long been one of my better club purchase decisions. I'm quite certain that my pace was better by not having to deal with the funky lies and brief searches that go hand in hand with playing a lot from the rough and worse.

I agree. It's the dopes that do PGA tour broadcasts that never seem to get the message.

I sort of work both ways on this. I will usually start a round with a single practice swing as part of my routine, mostly to rehearse the takeaway. I have a tendency to push the club out right from the start if I don't think about it. That results in an out to in, over the top swing which will cause either a slice to the right or a dead pull left, both of which are assured of screwing up a hole with the first swing. This tendency has become more pronounced since I've gotten older, starting to slide when I was in my early 60's. If I start my swing with my shoulders instead of my hands, so that the clubhead moves back on a straight or slightly inside path, I hit the ball more solidly, straighter and farther. If the swing feels comfortable after the first few shots, then I will often drop the practice swing for the remainder of the round.

Yes it is. Your divots should all be connected with no grass between them. That way you leave more of the hitting area undamaged for the next guy. With practice you can hit a full basket and only damage an area about 6" wide and a couple of feet long. After the first divot on fresh turf, set the next ball right on the back edge of that divot so that your next shot only takes 1" of grass, and continue to do that until you have a strip about 2 feet long, then move over just one divot width and do the same thing. You will be amazed at how many balls can be hit from a small area while always hitting from a grassy lie. This is especially important for right handers, simply because there are more of us. Nobody likes to be forced to take a hitting position that looks like a miniature battlefield with 50 or 60 separate craters leaving no decent place to put a ball.

The difference between a fairway bunker and waste bunker is that courses with what they call "waste bunkers" don't treat them as hazards. You can move loose impediments, ground your club, etc., because it's no different from being in the rough. A regular bunker that happens to be somewhere along the fairway is a true bunker and is a hazard.

I drive a Ford F-150, Super Crew cab, so no trunk. I have a soft tonneau cover and I keep a couple of short bungee cords in the truck so I can clip the bag to a tie-down lug in the box to keep it from migrating to the front when hit the brakes. Other than that I don't do anything special. I keep a small duffel bag in the garage with extra clothing for when I play during the shoulder seasons when the weather is less predictable. I toss that in if the forecast is for something other than good weather.

Playing by the rules is NOT a cause of slow play, or at least there is no reason for it to do so. I've played by the rules in 95% of my casual rounds and all of my competition rounds since 1989, and it has never made me a slow player. Part of it is actually knowing the rules well enough to immediately know your options and procedures without thinking or looking it up. I'm already thinking about what I'll need to do even before I get to my ball. I'm planning my next shot literally from the moment that my current shot stops rolling. The plan may changes as I get closer to the ball and see that the situation is a bit different from what I expected, but I'll still have a pretty good idea as I get out of the cart. I'll already have checked my distance (most players are far too picky about getting exactly the right yardage, even though they almost never hit it that closely), know what club I'm going to use, and generally how I'm going to play it. If I'm first to play, the time from arrival at my ball to ball in the air is less than 45 seconds, generally less than 30 seconds, because I've done most of the preparation before I get there. I very rarely take the full 5 minutes for a ball search. I will have already played a provisional ball, so once I determine that my best course is to continue with the 2nd ball, I abandon the original ball and play on. Generally no more than a couple of minutes lost. I know the rules for taking relief and how to drop, and it's usually done while others are playing their shots anyway, so no time lost at all there. Modify this when we have to wait on the players in front of us - I may take the full 5 minutes for a search if that doesn't result in my group falling behind. Next year the search time will be reduced to 3 minutes max, and even that is more than I usually spend on it.

I've posted this before, and it seems appropriate here too: "Your proper position on the course is directly behind the group in front of you, not directly ahead of the group behind." Naturally it is adjustable on a course with only a few groups (there is obviously no reason to try and catch up with a group in front who started a half hour ahead of you) , but it does apply strongly to a fully booked course on a nice summer Saturday. If you do fall behind do to some issues with a certain hole, it is your responsibility to regain your proper position in a timely manner. 4 hours for an average fourball on a typical public course when it is just moderately busy is a good target pace. It's not the best pace possible, but it's one that all but the most picky speed players can live with. I played 9 holes a couple of days ago. I was the only person on the course, riding, and it took me about an hour, and I wasn't even pulling flagsticks when I putted. I'm a pretty fast player, and I'm not sure how I could have played any faster (3 times I played a second ball when the first one didn't do what I asked, but that is another minute on the round at most). The cold front that is currently moving across the plains was just edging into Colorado, and the wind was whipping about 35 mph, so I had 2 or 3 extra strokes when playing into that gale (I made one triple, one birdie,and 7 bogies). 18 holes would have taken 2 hours at that pace, and add in 3 more players, all dealing with their own issues along the way, and 4 hours would not be an exceptionally slow pace. I have played in a few minutes under 4 hours for 18 holes playing in a fivesome, but that was exceptional. Most of the courses with which I'm familiar post an expected pace of between 4:20 and 4:30 (those are supposed to be targeted maximums, not average rounds). I've yet to see a course which is expected to take more than 4½ hours to play, yet I've played a lot of rounds which took more that that because we couldn't move any faster than the group in front, and they were waiting on the guys in front of them, etc. Some of it is caused by overcrowding on weekends, some of it is players not really understanding how to play at a reasonable pace, but a lot of it is just players not being ready to play when they are up. Golf has always been a social activity as well as a competitive game/sport, but the social aspect must be tempered by paying attention to pace of play. There is plenty of time to chat when waiting on the tee, or when moving up the fairway. When you get to your ball, it's time to prepare to play, even while your companions are doing the same. I've seen an entire foursome play their second shots in under a minute once the first player hits. They do that by getting the planning done immediately when they arrive near their balls. As long as your ball isn't in a position to bother another player, There is no reason for you not to be ready to play your stroke immediately after he does. I will often be starting to address my ball while the previous player's ball is still in the air. Unless a ball is headed well off line, there is no reason for all 4 players to stand around and watch the roll-out of each ball. Be aware, be ready to play, and play ready golf.

I'm 100% on your side in this. There is no reason in the world for you to have to stand and watch them screwing around before you can start your reading. I don't know what I'd do... probably just leave and play another day when I didn't have to deal with them. Being retired, I have that luxury. If there is one thing about golf that I'm death on, it's slow play when the reason for it is because one group or one guy plays with that sort of attitude. I usually tell strangers straight out on the first tee that I play ready golf. That at least promotes any needed discussion right from the start. Nobody is surprised when I play "out of turn" at some point. I'll qualify that with saying that I don't do anything that should distract or bother a player while he is addressing the ball and making his stroke, but I am usually ready to play almost as soon as I get to my ball. On the green, I take very little time as well. I don't mess with lines or marks on the ball. I don't even always mark and lift my ball, depends on the conditions and whether my ball is in a position to interfere with or distract another player. I'm courteous to other players and I try to follow reasonable etiquette, but I believe in using some common sense too. I've played with guys who can't stand to have a ball lying on the green anywhere (even if it isn't in their range of vision) when they play a putt, and it drives me crazy to have to cater to such an anal nutcase. They never seem to realize that their neurosis can be just as disconcerting to another player as that player's casual approach is to them.

Joining the conversation late, and apparently with the oldest first car of the lot. Mine was 1959 Chevy Biscayne 4-door sedan, 3 on the tree behind a 235 c.i. straight 6. This was the absolute basest of base models, but it got me around Montana for a year an a half. I traded it in 1967 for a '63 Impala 4-door hardtop, 327 c.i. w/300hp and 2 speed Powerglide automatic. This one was still one of the best cars I've owned, considering available equipment at the time. In Montana in the 60's and 70's there were no posted daytime speed limits on the highways (night limit was 65 on 4 lane and 55 on 2 lane), so I have a pretty good idea how fast that car would go. I got popped by the State Patrol one night at 135 mph, and I still had another 400 rpm until it tached out (speedometer pegged at 120) - would have put me at about 140-145. Such things weren't taken too seriously in Montana back then - he wrote me up for doing 80 in a 65 night zone, cost me a $15 fine.

It pisses me off that I'm missing the chance to watch what could the last hurdle in Tiger's comeback. I'm here in SW Colorado, yesterday on the Durango-Silverton narrow gauge railroad Photographer's Special, today driving the Million Dollar Highway to Silverton, Ouray and ultimately to Gunnison. Won't drive home until tomorrow, and since all of yesterday was, and much of today will be, out of cell service, I'm sort of in a communications blackout. I'll be rooting for him anyway. Maybe tonight's hotel will actually have Golf Channel so I can at least see highlights.

Showing up less than 15 minutes before your tee time. No - I arrive at the course at least 15 minutes early for casual round, usually an hour early for tournament play. Putting with too many balls on the practice green. No - I use only 2 balls on the practice green. Failing to pick up the flagstick. No - I do this regularly Taking only one club to your ball on cart path only days. No - I take as many as I feel I'll need, and sometimes I only need one. Looking for a lost ball for more than five minutes. No - It's rare for me to search for more than 2 minutes for my own ball... for a fellow competitor... as long as he does, but not more than 5 minutes. Talking to someone else's ball. Stupid - not much else to say about this one. Standing behind someone as they putt. No - just a courtesy like not talking while he makes a stroke. Walking in a player's through line. Stupid - With 4 balls scattered around the green, I'm primarily concerned with the line of putt. That through line has been walked on innumerable times that day, and on the course where I play most tournaments, the greens are firm and fast - you would have to jump up and down with 400 pounds on your back to even begin to make an impression. I'm not Phil Mickelson, so simply don't worry about it. Placing bag on a tee box. No - but it's a stupid rule Walking across the green with your bag. No - another stupid rule... if a 165 pound guy carries his 30 pound bag across the green, is he doing more damage than the 300 pound guy walking without a bag? Lack of divot pattern on the driving range. No Not picking up on a match play hole when you're out of it. No - not usually a factor, since my matches are played on public courses with the regular flow of play, but I will pick up if it might get us to the next tee sooner. Checking your phone too much. No - I use my phone for my GPS, so I check it for each fairway shot, but that's it. Gimmes (failing to give, taking too many for yourself) No - Don't do gimmes except in a match, and then I just use my judgement as to whether it's the right act at the time. I agree. I worked as a starter for 5 years, and when the course is busy, a late arrival means that you lose your tee time. That next group may have timed their preparation to be ready just on time, and that is their right. I don't have the right to make them leave the practice green early just so that you can have the luxury of being late. You show up for your time or you get the next open slot, which may be 4 hours away. That's how it is on a busy public course. Nothing screws up a starter more than having a group show up to check in 5 minutes before they are supposed to tee off. In my case, I might have already given that time to someone on my waiting list of walk on players. I call a group to the tee 9 minutes before their tee time, and if you aren't checked in, I'll clearly state that if I don't see anyone in the group within 2 minutes, then that time is forfeit.

Play whatever tees you get the most enjoyment from as long as you can keep up with the pace of play. If players are waiting on you, or you can't keep up with those in front, then you need to either change your playing strategy, or move to the next forward tee. That's really all there is to it, in my opinion.

This has nothing to do with what you might say in casual conversation. It's about the rules of the game. The rule says "X", so you do "X". If you accidentally or intentionally do "Y" instead, you have breached the rule. Since each rule has a consequence attached, based on the possible advantage which could gained by a breach, you have incurred whatever penalty might be appropriate according to the nature of that rule. In this case the advantage to be gained could literally be the difference between winning the competition or finishing out of the money. Thus the penalty must be severe enough to reflect that potentiality. DQ is the only penalty which can simply and succinctly cover all of the possible advantages to be gained by noncompliance. This is such an easy one to get right. Your skill or experience level shouldn't have any effect on your compliance with this rule. Anyone in a serious competition (basically any competition played under the rules) should be taking steps right from the start to cover himself on this. Keep your own score, whether on a separate card, or on the marker's strip of the "official" card of the player for whom you are marking. I've played in such tournaments since 1989, and I learned to do this during the first couple of stroke play tournaments in which I participated. I always mark my score immediately after I mark for my fellow competitor. I compare what I wrote down to what my marker wrote in the clubhouse after we finish, and discuss with him any discrepancies, and he does the same with me. Only after that does the card get signed and returned to the committee.

It has to do with honesty and integrity. It's also not exactly difficult to ensure that you return an accurate card. I also think that the if the penalty was milder that it could tempt some less than honorable persons to fudge their cards. Those people might see it as worth the risk if a 2 stroke penalty still let one finish in the money, whereas not getting caught would put you in or near the lead. DQ is harsh, but it's also very final.

I'm not sure that the game would really be different in any significant way. Just the nature of the game and how it developed, I think that the evolution of golf would be much the same. I don't think that time spent playing has had a big impact until the last 15 years or so. I don't think that the general perception of the game would be any different. Costs might be slightly less, but since the game grew up around private clubs where golf was just a part of the overall experience, the cost of membership would not really change. Even as it moved out into the mainstream, the idea that it was an "elite" pastime would have been retained. Paying 1/3 less to play 2/3 as many holes in 2/3 the time might be a better idea, but I'm thinking that the cost per hour of playing time would still be about the same, so that's not really a factor in figuring value. There wouldn't be any 18 hole rounds to compare with, so that relationship can't be added into any equation. The time savings would matter to some (even though they wouldn't know that they are saving time since there has never been an 18 hole round to weigh it against), but most don't take up golf with time as a consideration. If it ultimately becomes a factor as they move on in life, 9 holes isn't that much less than 12. So my answer is no, I don't think it would have made a significant difference. Golf would still look much as it does now, probably with the same discussions about the same topics, only starting from a slightly different perspective. I hope that fence isn't a pointy picket type... I'd rather be sitting on a nice rail fence.

I never take a putter for these tournaments because it's too limiting. My general choice is 5W, 7I, and PW. That can change somewhat depending on how long the course is set up to play. Usually when I've played in that sort of tournament, they play a shorter tee, so depending on that, I might modify the last 2 clubs to 8 iron and gap wedge. The 5W is a constant for me since it replaces driver, fairway wood, and putter. I don't think that I've ever been beaten by anyone who selected a putter for this sort of competition, because that leaves too many holes in their arsenal - too limiting for me.

As long as the movement of the ball is only a result of straightening the flagstick, it is considered holed. You are also allowed to straighten the flagstick before playing your stroke (from off the green), but if the flagstick needs to be held to keep it straight, then it is being attended and must be removed before the ball strikes it. Around here, the wind blows so constantly that the socket in the hole liners tend to wear and the stick will not stand straight unless it is tended. The 9 hole course near my home operates on a tight budget, so they use the liners as long as possible, resulting in some pretty wobbly pins after a couple of years. With the new rules next year, you will be able to leave the flagstick in the hole when putting too, so this condition may occur more frequently. It's good to know how to proceed with it.

There is all sorts of nonconforming golf equipment available - clubs, balls, distance measuring devices, etc. This has been the case for decades. It pays to check it out if it looks too strange or unfamiliar, or you could end up getting booted from a tournament for using something like that.

One bit of advice, don't just pull the flagstick from the hole. Straighten it and let the ball drop into the hole, then you can remove it without worry. If you yank it out and knock the ball away from the hole, then you haven't holed out. If the ball is not allowed to fall into the hole, then it takes another stroke to hole out.

I don't know that it's an irritant, but for clarification I use "playing companion" to refer to a member of my group when there is no match or competition involved. As a long time rules aficionado, I like to use correct terminology when possible so that I don't have to explain my explanation.

I add them 2 holes at a time to get a total score. Nothing else means anything to me for score or for handicap purposes. Card: 4,6,5,4,3,6,5,5,4 - I'd add 10+9+9+10+4=42. I look at 2 single digit numbers and it's easy to "see" the total of those 2. Been doing it like that for 40+ years.