Country Clubs gone public

[EGS]

In these difficult economic times country clubs have been hit hard. Here in the New Jersey/Philadelphia/Delaware area many country clubs have opened to public play. For someone in my situation (that of a poor, golf obsessed law student) this shift has been great.

The question I pose is to country club members: how do you feel about your club allowing non members to play? If your club has not made this shift, has it been discussed and if so in what format (i.e. club meeting or board decision)?

[CG031]

What NJ clubs have done this? None around me has, sadly.

[rjal4296]

Depends if it is Members Equity or Corporate run.

[golferelle]

Hope it's okay to resurrect an old thread. I played the last two weeks at local private country clubs that have opened their golf courses to the public and have the same question as the original poster.

As a country club member how do you feel if your course has been opened to the public? (Or even if you're not a club member how do you think you would feel?) What are the advantages and disadvantages to your club and to your use of the club?

I'm working on a related article and have been mulling this over, all thoughts appreciated!

[AmenCorner]

Since nobody has responded yet, I'll throw my piece in.

I'm not a member of a golf club, but rather a yacht club that has privilidges at a private country club. The club we play at needs our rounds in order to make their budget every year. We play approximately 1,000 rounds.

As far as I know, they find it to be a pretty good arrangement. Our club screens its members pretty well so the quality of our membership is very good overall. However, we do have the occasional jerk or cargo short wearer. They charge us a higher rate to play of course and we can't play certain hours on Saturday morning. Lastly, we can't play in their tourneys but we can host our own.

I'm guessing they don't like the fact that they can't use our club but we simply don't have the ability to do that due to the fact that we are at full capacity.

I'm aware of another yacht club/country club in town with a similar arrangement but with full reciprocity (goes both ways). This seems like a good way for clubs to supplement their income but still can get slippery when clubs try to steal visiting members.

edit: I am not aware of any clubs in my area that have gone from Private to Public.

[2bGood]

I am a member of a golf club, and I know (as most members do) we need money to keep it going. The membership can pay all the bills or we can find someways to get the public to pay a few bills.

We have treid some creative ways to get some more outside money in like winter leauge where the public can come in, and a trial program where people can join for a few months at just the monthly fee. We are finding about 70% join the club after trying it out and it has been really good for us. We hold about 12 tournements a year for outside groups wich is a great money maker as is the wedding buisness.

I think most members are fine with this providing a balance is maintained so that we still get the tee times we want. The winter leauge is great as the course is empty most afternoons anyways, the trial members can only tee off after 1pm so now worries there, and on tournement days we go play at one of our sister clubs if we really want a round.

One thing we have started to look at as opening up our resteruant in the winter. We don't need to do it as our club is really healthy, but the place is empty most nights in the off season, so if we could make a few bucks (that lowers our fees or allows us to make more improvements to the course) why not.

[meenman]

Not to be rude -

but if my club ever let the public in I would resign immediately.

I can see my club going public at some point. Membership has changed and a good percentage of the members are on some kind of deal (as was I until it expired)

But if the general public was allowed to play under the same circumstances that I was, I would see no need to pay a monthly membership fee for the same rights that others got for free.

Our greens were recently redone and the 2.5 months the course was on temps let me see what it was like to play different courses every week, and the way the economy is now it is much cheaper to be a free agent.

I have done the membership at a public course thing and all it is is prepaid greens fees - any course with a decent sales staff will have weekends filled with tournaments, which always bumps the *members* to afternoons.

[Chris223]

Usually at a decent discount though. But you have to play enough. I'm debating whether or not to pay for a membership next year at a course I play at a lot that is public. It is basically prepaid greens fees, but I've calculated that I would need to play about 27 times to make the fee worth it, and that's walking 18 every time. Which I will walk, but not all the time. Sometimes I want to play quick or avoid holding up play and ride or I'm with other people and we all ride.

[golferelle]

Thank you for the responses about country club memberships, lots of different viewpoints!

[DavidFehertysBike]

I would never pay to play at these clubs. If im invited, thats another thing. But im not supporting a business that will eventually close the doors to the same people that helped sustain it once things get better.

[pavespawn]

So for those who are CC members, what added benefit do you have besides "prepaid greens fees?" How much less crowded is your course compared to a public one? I imagine you certainly pay a pretty penny for that privilege right? I can see how you would be upset to open it to the public. Being military I get access to the base course and they recently allowed civilians to start playing it for money reasons. I can say that I was less than thrilled. It was hard enough to deal with the retirees who are there all the time. Of course I will be one of those guys eventually!

Oh and I don't like seeing cargo shorts on the course either! And if I were in a CC I would look to have the dress code spelled out to eliminate them and un-tucked shirts. Just my opinion and personal preference.

[Elvisliveson]

What NJ clubs have done this? None around me has, sadly.

Yea, I was gonna' say if there were I'd be first in line.

[kpaulhus]

I was a member at a private club that sold 4 tee times a day on Golfnow.com. Really, when I break down the cost of being a member vs playing a different course every weekend, it evens out. I would rather play a different course on Golfnow.com every weekend than play the same course over and over. That being said, one of the nice things about playing at the club was that I knew where I was playing every weekend, and I could usually find other people that I had played with several times. There was a sunday morning game and the tournaments were fun. I might actually get back to being a club member.

[pixel5]

I will NEVER join a private club/country club. They are full of ignorant people who prefer to pay for the privilege of having friends and old men who are meaner than junkyard dogs. I'm not saying all CC members are like that, but most are. And heck, I live in Texas...the friendliest state ever...I don't want to know the kind of arrogant pompous jerkoffs that reside in other regions of the world. To hear the comment about the cargo shorts absolutely ticks me off. I wear khaki's on the course because I respect the game, but I would never look down on a guy who wore cargo's. Heck, what if he can't afford nicer things? I've been there!

My family started poor, living paycheck to paycheck. Thats not the case anymore. We could easily join the local country club (which has an amazing course), but we instead choose to have our membership at a course by the red river surrounded by farm land with the friendliest atmosphere in the world. Kind of a "where everybody knows your name" place, and if they DONT know your name you can bet they will find out real soon and you won't pay a dime for your own coffee!

So you can see me as a jerk for hating country clubs...thats fine. Everyone has a right to defend their own. And I know many folks who are CC members that are great people. But for the most part, I wouldn't mind seeing the upper-class CC's get knocked on their butts. No man is greater than another just because he has more money. I would spend a year in a trailer park rather than a week with the pom and posh pricks at my local CC.

/rant

Okay. Now that I can breathe... haha. Rants like this are not my usual nature, but I have felt VERY strong about this topic for quite some time.

[plugged]

I will NEVER join a private club/country club. They are full of ignorant people who prefer to pay for the privilege of having friends and old men who are meaner than junkyard dogs. I'm not saying all CC members are like that, but most are. And heck, I live in Texas...the friendliest state ever...I don't want to know the kind of arrogant pompous jerkoffs that reside in other regions of the world. To hear the comment about the cargo shorts absolutely ticks me off. I wear khaki's on the course because I respect the game, but I would never look down on a guy who wore cargo's. Heck, what if he can't afford nicer things? I've been there! My family started poor, living paycheck to paycheck.

I find it ironic and pretty sad that you stereotype a whole group of people. One could easily stereotype you and your upbringing - would that be OK?

I am not a member of a private club now, but have been in the past, and have played at several private clubs. I much prefer private clubs. The contrast between the players is huge. Here is my assessment between most of the private clubs I've played and the public courses: - Most private club members tend to take care of the course - replace their divots, repair ball marks, rake bunkers, throw trash in waste containers, etc. They take ownership of the course because they in fact DO own the course. Most public course players simply don't give a ****. They figure "its not mine, why should I tak care of it?" - Most private club members tend to be respectful of other players. It doesn't mean you don't occasionally have slow play, but that is usually remedied by a call to the marshall if it beomes excessive. You also tend not to have outright rude behavior. I don't know if this is because most folks know each other, or they feel some solidarity with a fellow co-owner of the course, or they simply don't want to see their membership revoked, but contrast this with public course players, the majority of whom are pretty good folks, but a fairly large minority of whom should probably be banned from every golf course for life - Most private club members tend to know the rules and follow them whereas most public course players don't even know the basics of golf, nor do they really care. - Most private courses, even on busy days, tend to only let groups go out at 15-minute intervals or less. Most public courses will stuff as many people, and in as large of groups, as they possibly can. More revenue that way. I'll take a private club any day of the week.

[ElWagonne]

- Most private club members tend to take care of the course - replace their divots, repair ball marks, rake bunkers, throw trash in waste containers, etc. They take ownership of the course because they in fact DO own the course. Most public course players simply don't give a ****. They figure "its not mine, why should I tak care of it?"

So you criticize stereotyping by making more outlandish stereotypes......riiiiiiiiiiiight

I'll say this, it's all dependent on the culture of the private club or public course at hand.

[iacas]

If you want to have a cargo shorts discussion (AGAIN), use one of the existing threads. Please keep this one to the topic.

[pavespawn]

I don't get how anyone could say they could not afford a decent pair of shorts. If they can afford greens fees they can buy shorts.

I think there is a little bit of "majesty" left in this game so I like to dress like it. I think that is why I would like a CC since they would enforce the dress code. The base course doesn't cause they just want to make money too.