Player profiling for clubs

**mcotter** · May 13, 2010

I see the irons manufacturers typically profile the player they think the club is best suited for. Usually I see low, mid, and high handicappers. Some say low to mid, others say mid to high, etc. What do yiou think the golf manufacturers consider low, middle, and high?

**Shindig** · May 13, 2010

Like the various flexes, it varies manufacturer to manufacturer. I was at a demo day a few months ago, and told a TaylorMade rep that I'm a 16-handicap after I demo'ed their Players' Irons (R9s, I think?). He said that, at that level, I shouldn't even be considering those, and should be playing something more like their GI irons. By contrast, when I mentioned to the Mizuno reps that I was playing MP-57s, they said that they're great irons for a player of my ability.

**Travtex** · May 13, 2010

I still wonder about this. I'm leaning toward a pretty solid 'I dunno' with a bit of 'depends on your swing'?

Got to a Callaway demo day just this afternoon. Great opportunity as having multiple left-handed clubs around to try out has not been an available luxury since moving to a smaller town. At the end of the day, the rep had me pegged as a tweener in most respects. Actually said I should be avoiding beginner irons, though I'm not entirely sure why (Granted, I don't LIKE shovel irons, but I'm not sure why a person should necessarily avoid them if they don't mind looking at them). I probably hit the X22 Tours the best, about ten yards further than the regular 22s -- Problem being wider dispersion distance-wise. X22 6i hanging around 160 plus or minus a few yards... X22 Tour 6i ranging from 160-175. Now, adding 15 potential yards SOUNDS nice on paper, but who can judge distances with a 15+ yard distance dispersion?

Anyway, my original point was: Had me pegged somewhere between 'Players Irons' and 'Game Improvement Irons', and no-no on Super GI Irons. Also said, surprising for a company rep, that they didn't really have anything in lefty models that fit that bill. (Not really sure how to interpret that, but...*shrug*)

Aside: Had the same deal with driver fitting. Either a heavier R-flex or a lighter S-flex... and 10.5 launching a liiiitle bit high, 9.5 a liiiitle bit low. *laugh*

**WUTiger** · May 13, 2010

If you compare the player profiling to Ralph Maltby's MPF index, you can get an idea of how "user-friendly" the irons are. But, even Maltby cautions that MPF only deals with head design, and doesn't factor in what kind of shaft you need.

So, player profiling is useful if you know where you are in your game, and where you're going.

I played in a scramble with a former small-college player who once played to a 2 HDCP with blades. But, with a job and a family, he now plays to about 9 with Game Improvement clubs. He says the consistency of GI helps him score better than trying to play blades when he's not at top swing form any more. Eliminating misses helps him more than being able to "work one" on occasion.

Going the other way, a 20 HDCP who is seeing a better swing emerge, and who plans to work on his game, might go from SGI to GI. Again, you need to have the right shaft choice to maximize performance of any club.

The player profiles are based on averages from marketing data. Whenever you have averages, you find exceptions to the rule used to set up the averages.

**Travtex** · May 13, 2010

So, player profiling is useful if you know where you are in your game, and

Yeah, that's a point I was dancing around and never got around to actually SAYING, haha. In my instance, I was thinking I could go either way depending on my intentions. If I want to grove a better swing, I'm thinking I'd eat the potential distance gaps of less forgiveness (This is where I am mentally, now)... If I wanted to just play and shoot for scores, I'd drop back down to the GIs (An idea I haven't entirely abandoned, but probably isn't in my basic character when Improvement and Hard Work are possible options, heh).

(That, and getting something without all that damn offset.)

**Shanks A Million** · May 13, 2010

I never even mention handicap. I go and hit some balls, then take a suggestion. My last trip the fitter recommended getting a players iron, and to avoid GI irons. He said to look for something like an MP-57, CG-7 Tour, S-58, or something similar. I ended up with the Nike Pro Combos, which he agreed were a good fit. That's generally how I do it. When a fitter tells me it's time for blades, I'll get blades.

**Farm_kid** · May 13, 2010

My cynical side tells me that the the Big Name companies label golfers purely from a marketing perspective in order to justify multiple lines of clubs, and they will tell people anything they want to hear, especially as they smell a pending sale. They can stroke a person's ego in order to sell a more expensive set of clubs rather than thier entry level.

In truth, companies are just guessing and generallizing people's ability becasue there is no right answer. A person could be an excellent ball striker and irons player, but average 40 putts in a round if that is thier week area. Their high handicap might indicate that they need game-improvement irons, but in reality they could easily be playing blades and effectively working the ball left and right in order to get closer to the green and pin for easier putts.

**sean_miller** · May 13, 2010

A person could be an excellent ball striker and irons player, but average 40 putts in a round if that is thier week area. Their high handicap might indicate that they need game-improvement irons, but in reality they could easily be playing blades and effectively working the ball left and right in order to get closer to the green and pin for easier putts.

Maybe a "1/2 decent ball striker" could

average 40 putts, but not an excellent one. I'm not an "excellent" ball striker by any stretch of the imagination, but I had two consecutive putting rounds that approached 40 and I knew it was time to overhaul my putting. To take over 40 is a lot of putts - like I mean, it would really be a lot of putts for an excellent ball striker .

**delav** · May 13, 2010

If i were an "excellent" ball striker and put of 40+ strokes on the putting green, i'd find a way to put my putter shaft through my head.

**DavidFehertysBike** · May 13, 2010

I had a discussion with a titleist marketing lady (i forget her name) because i was interesting in joining their department over the winter. They consider anyone from 0-5 as a highly skilled player and anyone 6-15 as aspiring . The brand primarily markets their clubs to those demographics.

**andef** · May 13, 2010

I had a discussion with a titleist marketing lady (i forget her name) because i was interesting in joining their department over the winter. They consider anyone from 0-5 as a

from my understanding only the AP1 and the AP2 (the latter for a high single digit handicapper) are marketed for the aspiring player while the MB/CB are aimed at the highly skilled player. however, their woods are suggested from 0-15 so that they fit both player ranges. this is how titleist does it but other brands are very different. as an example, a taylormade ret at a recent demo day was classifying the irons based on trajectory: lower ball flight = players irons and so on. this shows you that each brand is different and that you shouldn't really trust a rep whos classifying you based on your handicap.

**sean_miller** · May 13, 2010

I had a discussion with a titleist marketing lady (i forget her name) because i was interesting in joining their department over the winter. They consider anyone from 0-5 as a

I consider myself

highly aspiring , so the AP2 would probably appeal to me - aesthetically they sure do!

**DavidFehertysBike** · May 13, 2010

from my understanding only the AP1 and the AP2 (the latter for a high single digit handicapper) are marketed for the aspiring player while the MB/CB are aimed at the highly skilled player. however, their woods are suggested from 0-15 so that they fit both player ranges. this is how titleist does it but other brands are very different. as an example, a taylormade ret at a recent demo day was classifying the irons based on trajectory: lower ball flight = players irons and so on. this shows you that each brand is different and that you shouldn't really trust a rep whos classifying you based on your handicap.

Yeah, thats true.

**Gordon McTavish** · May 13, 2010

I consider myself "aspiring" but have been stuck at 28 index for almost a year, struggling to break 100. Maybe I should consider myself "crap" and use a garden spade!

jonwil · May 13, 2010

Single digit = low, almost single = mid, everyone else = high.

**allin** · May 13, 2010

I consider myself "aspiring" but have been stuck at 28 index for almost a year, struggling to break 100. Maybe I should consider myself "crap" and use a garden spade!

Ouch I hope that was just a joke. Aspiring means you have a goal of improvement. What is your improvement plan?

**Travtex** · May 13, 2010

Ouch I hope that was just a joke. Aspiring means you have a goal of improvement. What is your improvement plan?

Personally, I think this season's goal is to start making it through rounds without the nagging concern that the next shot is going to go screaming into the next fairway and take a life. *snork*

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Player profiling for clubs

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