Baddeley Post-SnT

**nlowplacez** · May 17, 2010

Was watching the Texas Open today and the announcers were talking about Baddeley while he was on the tee. Sometimes they're full of crap i know. n e way, one said something along the lines of Baddeley used to be in the S & T school and has since moved on to traditional swing with weight shift and whatnot. Truthfully, I don't remember ever seeing him play as well as today while he was stackin and tiltin. I'm wondering if anyone has an idea of why he might have moved away from it or if he ever said what he didn't like about it. I was considering trying S&T; for a while to see if maybe that could be the thing to get me over the ammy pro hump. But I've always been waiting for someone to emerge from the PGA pack who uses it to give it some validity and prove its worth in my own mind. yalls guesses are probably as good as mine, but figured i'd throw it out anyway.

(i know theres posts on S&T; but not much on pros quitting it and henceforth improving)

**deronsizemore** · May 17, 2010

I haven't seen Baddeley play since moving away from stack and tilt, but he had some great tournaments when he was using stack and tilt. Wasn't it a Major (US Open maybe?) that he was leading going into the last day and choked?

If you've gotten to a +1.9 with your current swing, I'd say if it isn't broke, don't fix it. The only thing that will get you over the amateur/pro hump is hitting your approach shots closer thus giving you better chances at making birdie putts; obviously, you're well aware of this though.

**Zeph** · May 17, 2010

Aaron Baddeley

Source: Stackandtiltgolfswing.com

Aaron met Mike and Andy through the recommendation of Steve Elkington and Tommy Armour at the end of the 2005 season. He won his first tournament in 2006. In 2007 he won again and later that fall he won for a third time the Australian Masters for three wins in two years. During this time his world ranking went from 170th to 17th, including 7 top 10s on his way to finishing 6th on the FedEx Cup in 2007. He made 7 million dollars with 12 top 10s and 27 top 25 finishes in this period. He has not worked with Mike and Andy since Mar 12, 2009. His world ranking on that date was 34.

Source: Stack and Tilt Golf Swing website . You can find other records on the link.

***iacas*** · May 17, 2010

(i know theres posts on S&T; but not much on pros quitting it and henceforth improving)

I'd say he hasn't improved (not yet, or not measurably). Zeph posted the chart.

And as I've said before, if he subsequently improves again, it's not necessarily because he left the S&T; camp. He won't have forgotten all of the things he learned. He won't have forgotten the ball flight laws, which many pros still get wrong. He won't have changed his mindset from the analytical one that S&T; prefers to the "let's try this" hodge podge teaching a surprising number of pros prefer.

has since moved on to traditional swing with weight shift and whatnot.

Again, S&T; has a weight shift like every other golf swing. For a righty, your weight goes back to the right side and then comes forward to the left side in the downswing. Same as every other swing used by good to great players ever.

Truthfully, I don't remember ever seeing him play as well as today while he was stackin and tiltin.

Nah, he just won twice (his only wins on the PGA Tour) and led the U.S. Open. His world ranking only shot up... You don't remember, so check the stats.

Besides, did you watch his swing? He didn't have a lot of lateral translation of his head. He stayed fairly centered. His hands still gained good (not great) depth. The thing he's reportedly working on this year is taking his hands to the sky - really pushing them upwards. That's great - you can get some power that way (not much, but a teeny bit more, and Aaron's always hit the ball pretty well for a guy his size) - but you're going to have trouble timing it for 72 holes or from week to week.

But I've always been waiting for someone to emerge from the PGA pack who uses it to give it some validity and prove its worth in my own mind.

Again, Aaron Baddeley may be your best example. His only two PGA Tour wins have come with S&T; thus far. Any PGA Tour win he gets after will be with the knowledge he added from Mike and Andy, and while they won't get 100% credit, they won't get 0% either... and he's yet to add that third win, anyway. Look at the charts:

http://stackandtiltgolfswing.com/the-record/ .

**shaun** · May 18, 2010

Again, Aaron Baddeley may be your best example. His only two PGA Tour wins have come with S&T; thus far. Any PGA Tour win he gets after will be with the knowledge he added from Mike and Andy, and while they won't get 100% credit, they won't get 0% either... and he's yet to add that third win, anyway.

I'm not a big fan of the "Baddeley retains all of his S&T; knowledge" argument. Of course, I can see why people would say that, but it seems to come dangerously close to having it both ways. S&T;'ers will say that Baddeley's rise up the world rankings after he left Plummer and Bennett was caused by his rejection of S&T; equally, it seems, they'll say that any success he might have in the future will be due, at least in part, to the "knowledge" of S&T; that he retains. I think the latter claim is dubious when Baddeley has returned to his original coach (Lynch) in a deliberate attempt to move back to the swing he had when he won his two ("dinky" ... ha ha!) Australian Opens and was being lauded as the next Tiger-killer. Really, the great tragedy about Baddeley is that he's still miles away from living up to the promise he showed well before his Leadbetter and S&T; days.

***iacas*** · May 18, 2010

I'm not a big fan of the "Baddeley retains all of his S&T; knowledge" argument. Of course, I can see why people would say that, but it seems to come dangerously close to having it both ways.

And I'd agree, which is why I don't care that you misquoted me. I said he'd retain some of his knowledge. He knows some simple premises that apply to ANY swing. He knows what parts of his swing to measure and what parts to look at on video if he wants to a certain shot. That's all. He knows a bit of geometry, so if his swing is a bit wonky on any given day or any time, he can still fall back on basic knowledge - and fix it himself.

Also, I specifically said things like: - he won't have forgotten the ball flight laws - he won't have forgotten the analytical way you can look at a golf swing I could add to that list but they're all things that don't really even have to do with the golf swing. Tiger Woods is the sum total of all of the coaches he's had. He himself says he still goes back to what his dad taught him as a youngster when times are tough. He won't say it but you know it's true that he also remembers bits and pieces of what Butch Harmon taught him as well. The next instructor will get a guy with more built-in knowledge than Hank Haney got him, and Butch Harmon before that. If Baddeley ever wins again, he'll undoubtedly give full credit to his new instructors, as he should. But hey, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Until then, nlowplacez is just a hater with a bad memory.

**michaeljames92** · May 18, 2010

Off topic I know, but the last two rounds I've played, I've had the best ball striking off my life by simply having the feeling of keeping my weight centred over my left side. Ive started to hit a draw again which is nice and fading the ball isn't as hard as I thought it would be. The whole idea of keeping your swing bottom in the same spot just eliminates for me the timing aspect and as a result i have been flushing pretty much everything.

I listened to Andy and mike talk that Aaron thought he wasn't getting better. But how exactly did he think this? Was he not consistent enough or too one dimensional in his shot making or something? What would reverting back to his 'old style' allow him to do better?
I know I posted a thread/post about his change a while back and now realise it was a stupid post as Stack and tilt is actually very sound from the research I have done and first hand experience of trying pieces of it.

**Leftygolfer** · May 18, 2010

I watched a bit on Sunday. The thing I noticed about his swing is it seemed less effecient and quick. I remember when he won how simple his swing looked. Sunday, it seems long and sloppy. I prefer the compact simple swings so to me his swing seemed worse.

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