Do tour players prefer fast greens?

I have been playing some greens lately that are much faster than i normally play and find them 'unforgiving'. The putting is one thing but getting on and staying on is much more difficult.  Do the pros, and low handicappers, prefer really fast greens?  If so , why?  I guess for the pros it may just be another hurdle to leap. Those 'wanna' be pros cannot yet handle the speed of the greens  so are sure to post a higher score, effectively reducing the  number of players who can compete. Other  ideas?

You can't be sloppy on fast greens, it's hard to be aggressive unless you hit perfect shots, and usually they are harder to read. The playing style and equipment of the pros these days is designed for scoring on fast greens.

Essentially, fast greens mean the player has to find a flat spot to land his approach and spin it, or run it onto the green and use the slope to get it to settle; this often is easier at the middle or far side of the green rather than the pin. Players working the ball left or right hope to not only vary where it lands, but it comes in at an angle and is more likely to work towards the hole or stop where they want it. If there is a left to right breaking green, the player might play a draw to lessen the effect of the slope.

If you hit any shot without height and spin, it is more likely to roll through or slide off. This is one reason that tour pros prefer soft balls and high lofted, spinny wedges. A chip and run or putt cannot easily be used to get the ball near the pin on a fast green unless it slopes towards you; if it slopes away you need either very soft touch or a higher, softer shot with check. With slow greens, you just need to get it near the hole, and it'll die down within a few feet unless the slope is drastic.

Fast greens mean the player can't beat up the course as badly; driving the green and hitting long approaches is hard when you need to hit high and soft to hold the green, and water hazards and bunkers can be fed by slopes a la 17 at sawgrass.

Putting is much truer on fast greens, but the break increases and subtle breaks can make a difference. Also, keeping it close to the hole is tough if there are slopes; you'll hear announcers saying "he needs to hole this putt because he's above the hole". If they don't get it in, the ball has a good chance of gaining speed and ending up far downhill, making for a hard second putt. As such, players will play their approach to set up an uphill putt, where they are almost guaranteed a 2 putt.

For Amateurs, it can be interesting to play fast greens, but many public courses have both slow and poorly maintained greens, so fast greens are seen as a plus since they require better care. I don't mind the greens slow, but I prefer them fast and clean over slow and bumpy. They expose the difference between hitting your irons the right distance and hitting a good golf shot.

As you can see, fast greens make golf very complicated and hard to play, so obviously low cappers love them in their masochistic way. It becomes more strategic, and is a major reason why the best ballstrikers, short game players, and putters on tour win most of the money rather than long hitters. It is very satisfying to fine tune your play and score on courses like this, and fast greens are usually truer, as mentioned, so most good players like them. That said, there comes a point where it gets a wee bit old, see Oakmont.

Lots of incorrect info there, Lucius. Be careful not to confuse fast greens with hard greens.  Many greens that run very fast (think Augusta) are receptive to approach shots.  Likewise, just because a green is fast doesn't mean it is harder to read, or is more difficult.  The breaks will be larger because the ball rolls slower, but with a little practice they can be solved.  Sure, downhill putts are trickier because of the fear of running it by so far, but that is more a fear factor than a reality.

I much prefer faster greens.  The putting stroke does not have to be as large to cover the same distances, so it should be more accurate and consistent. Trying to slam a 30 foot putt on a slow green requires a longer stroke that invariably brings in more variables, leading to more mishit putts.

I just talked to a couple of buddies who played a nearby course that had much faster greens.  They went on and on about how it was impossible not to 3-putt because they were so fast.  Chances are, they should have spent a little bit of time on the practice green to try to get a better feel for distance.

Faster greens are smoother, and the ball rolls better (without any bumps or hops).  That means more consistent roll and truer lines.  I find it much, much easier to consistently roll in 5-10 footers on faster greens.  Although there is a tradeoff and a threshold:  when greens get ridiculously fast, or when they combine speed with a lot of slope, it makes them infinitely more difficult.  When they're really fast, you're so worried about hitting it 10 feet by the hole you have a hard time getting it on line or making a confident stroke.  Likewise when you throw in a lot of slope with speed, you can't hit the ball firm enough (on say a 10-foot sidehill put) to start it on line without risking blowing it way by the hole.

Better putters prefer faster greens because the better you can control the flat stick on a fast green you are more likely to miss by a foot either way instead of 3 or 4 feet. Slower greens are good for poorer putters because they dont have the risk of a ball going 20 feet past or getting scared and leaving it way short. It gives you a sense of comfort that you can putt aggresively, which is tough to do on fast greens.

It might be worth noting that it doesn't matter if the players prefer fast greens or not. They get paid lots of money and are stuck playing them regardless of their feelings. Try asking if tour players prefer 7800 yard courses! It's just the way the tourneys are set up. The ones that win tend to have nice things to say about the courses each week, at least.

It's my belief that "better" players (be they PGA players, or locals with handicaps in low single digits) prefer fast greens.  The reason for this is that faster greens are easier to make the 5-10 foot putts that these players have to make to score.  These putts are more make-able on fast greens for the reasons explained above (shorter stroke, less room for error) than they are on slow greens.  For higher handicappers, who make a lower percentage of these 5-10 footers, (and are likely less accomplished putters) faster greens may be more of a challenge, and create more 3 putts due to a lack of speed control on their putts.

As far as "hard" greens are concerned (as described above), I dont think ANYONE likes those.  Harmonius did a great job above of differentiating between the two.  It's my observation that very few PGA events are held on courses with "hard" greens that wont hold an approach shot (exceptions for the Euro layouts where the Open Championships are often held).

I agree.  In fact, I find faster greens to be more forgiving in the sense that if I mishit my putt, it still get a decent amount of roll out.  So, instead of being 5 or 6 feet short, I'm only say 2 or 3 feet short.  Also, I play a little more break than I would for slower greens.

I grew up in NE Ohio on very fast greens then moved to Florida with much slower, Bermuda greens. I'm a better putter on Bermuda for a couple reasons. One, on slower greens you can be more aggressive with the putt. On fast greens you tend to be more defensive with the stroke. Two, we have grain, and you have to read it properly to putt successfully. It's great 'local knowledge'.

So I guess I 'prefer' slower greens for the reasons above, mainly cuz I can use a firmer stroke. But I think better players prefer fast greens cuz it does require more skill, aside from the grain-reading aspect of Bermuda.

I like fast greens. and downhill putts too oddly enough. Put the two together and I'm a happy guy. I feel like I have more control over my stroke when I have to be delicate. When the greens are slow, I feel the need to ram most putts. I feel like I lose a little bit of control when having to strike a putt rather than stroke a putt.

I have poa annua greens at my course. These things change pretty dramatically during Winter vs Summer. We get cold temps and wind in the winter which slick them out so nice! And some serious heat in the Summer which keeps them lush and has them grow very fast. They get slowwww in the Summer.

Bring on the speed!

Maybe the grain Erie, Pa. is that way.

But in Fla it's pretty significant to both speed AND line. My research is 25 years of playing on it. I'll put it this way - it affects enough of the direction/break to make you miss the putt if you don't account for it. Unscientifically-speaking.

To begin with, re-read my initial post. Here -

Apparently somewhere in there you assumed that I was referring only to how much grain affects the break of the putt. I said 'you have to read it properly' - you made an incorrect conclusion. Here's what I am saying -

Grain affects the speed and the break of a putt. Moreso the speed. So in that instance you are correct - downgrain putts versus into the grain putts vary significanly on the speed.

Now. Your research aside (or maybe augmenting it, you decide), grain also affects how much a putt breaks. By how much is dependent on a number of factors, such as, if its a cross-grain putt, and - here's the key - the pace of the putt. If you are one that likes to die the ball into the hole, you better account for the grain to affect the ball as it is slowing down. Again, by how much is a matter of feel & reading the grain properly. If you like to ram putts in, obviously, the grain will not affect it as much. But as a putt slows, the grain grabs it.

So you say grain affects the break of a putt much less 'than I think'. Well, after reading the above, how much you think I think it affects it?

For me, I prefer fast greens because thats a sign that its a course thats taken care of well and is a good test of your abilities.  I agree with the points above where the 5-10 footers are easier since you're taking a shorter stroke, making it fun to be able to score a little better.  However, because I'm not the best putter I struggle on fast greens and can think of a few tournaments I've played in that I've struck the ball very well and just completely thrown away a round because I suck at putting on the fast greens.  You really have to have your stroke dialed in and this is what makes the pros so much better than us because so many strokes are gained and lost with the putter.  Just as an example, last year I played a course in Tahoe, Martis Camp, for Mid-am qualifying and they had the greens rolling very fast with lots of subtle breaks, you really have to have the correct reads on longer putts and lag the ball well to not throw away a round.  I did not accomplish that at all, 42 shots with 39 putts.  Fast greens will give you a lot of feedback on your putting abilities and is the major difference in what makes a good player great.