Ground under repair limits

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad 

How do you determine the nearest point of relief out of Ground Under Repair when the area in question is not clearly marked?.

 

Well I don't think you really can in a tournament.  In a tournament I would try and get a ruling.  If playing casually, I'd give it your best guess.  Looking at your diagram, it looks like the nearest point of relief might have been a point on the cart path, not B or C.  After dropping on the cart path, you would have a new situation which you would then deal with, relief from an obstruction.  You would then drop under the obstruction rule if you wanted relief.  I also see flower beds which could also be defined by a local rule.  Sometimes when GUR is connected to a Cart path, under local rule the GUR is considered part of the cart path and deemed to be part of the obstruction. 

I think you pretty much have it. While taking a drop from the GUR, you would probably end up placing the ball on the cart path.  Given the flowers are off limits, the NPR from the cart path might very well be back in the GUR although not at point A .  In the end you might wind up by B or C anyway.  And yes you can always play two balls.  You could play your original ball as it lies in the GUR, do your relief options and play a second ball from there.  Report the facts when you turn in your score card.

One thing about playing two balls, before you do anything with the original ball, announce that you are going to play 2 balls AND specify which ball you want to count if the rules allow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad 

Wow, there is a lot to think about with some of these rules.  That is incentive enough to keep it in the fairway and on the green, so as not to have to stress over these things.

 

That cart path is concrete with curbs on both sides (actually a short wall on the flowerbed side) and slopes up from the fairway.  It is a guarantee that if, on your drop, the ball didn't bounce back into the GUR, it would roll 20 yards down the hill.  It's obvious that will happen, so are you still required to go through the process of dropping on the cart path, then placing on the path, then taking relief from the path?  (Assuming the local rule you mentioned was not in effect)

 

I know the flowerbeds are off limits so after all is said and done, I will either end up at B or C, right?  If its a tournament without a rules official present at the time, do I just play from both spots and ask later?

The tournament committee should be ashamed of themselves for allowing such an issue to arise  in the first place.  It takes very little to send a member out with a can of white spray paint and mark any such areas clearly.  I play my competitions on a public course, yet we still send one of our members out to mark the course about 4 or 5 times a season, and particularly when the previous marks are starting to fade.  Our course holds not only our Men's Club tournaments, but we do sectional PAT tournaments, and high school matches and tournaments.  There are almost never any disputes about location of the margins of hazards or GUR.  Any such disputes usually come up because of ignorance of the rules by an individual player, not because of poor course marking. 

That said, it a tournament setting, the rule procedure should be followed as closely as possible in a case like this where there are multiple relief situations.  You should make the drop on the cart path if that is the correct spot from the NP. , Then if placing is necessary after a redrop, place the ball on the spot on the cart path, locate the nearest point of relief from there and follow the rest of the process.  If that puts you back in the GUR then Decision 1-4/8 comes into play:

Ain't golf fun????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

The tournament committee should be ashamed of themselves for allowing such an issue to arise  in the first place.  It takes very little to send a member out with a can of white spray paint and mark any such areas clearly.  I play my competitions on a public course, yet we still send one of our members out to mark the course about 4 or 5 times a season, and particularly when the previous marks are starting to fade.  Our course holds not only our Men's Club tournaments, but we do sectional PAT tournaments, and high school matches and tournaments.  There are almost never any disputes about location of the margins of hazards or GUR.  Any such disputes usually come up because of ignorance of the rules by an individual player, not because of poor course marking. 

 

That said, it a tournament setting, the rule procedure should be followed as closely as possible in a case like this where there are multiple relief situations.  You should make the drop on the cart path if that is the correct spot from the NP. , Then if placing is necessary after a redrop, place the ball on the spot on the cart path, locate the nearest point of relief from there and follow the rest of the process.  If that puts you back in the GUR then Decision 1-4/8 comes into play:

 

 

 

Ain't golf fun????

 

My brain is practically fried from reading and comprehending. I'm tempted to get a lawyer to clarify it, lol.

Dropping at C would have been a loss of hole in match play, 2-stroke penalty in stroke play.

In golf, the ball must be played as it lies in it's final at rest position, unless taking relief.  When taking relief, in this case from ground under repair, first mark your ball (you may now clean it if you like, unless taking relief from a hazard).  Then determine which club you would use from the original lie, if it was to be played (i.e., likely your chipping iron from A) and lay it 90 degrees or more (never closer to the hole) to the pin.  Never remove the marker for your original lie until you've determined the nearest point of relief.  Take your line to the right until you've gained one club length of relief for stance and swing, and place a mark.  Take your line to the left until you've gained one club length (still the original club) and make a mark (tees normally).  Whichever mark is closest to A is your nearest point of relief.  If those flower beds are considered a part of the course (which they normally are---local rules may hold different stipulations for ball in the flower beds) and your nearest point of relief was in them, you would have to drop in the bed and play it as it lies (D or E below) or declare it unplayable and take two club lengths relief, plus a penalty (plus a stroke for each additional two clubs to get out of the beds).  After all is said and done you take your drop standing directly behind your nearest point of relief marker perpendicular to the pin.  After your round you politely inform the course manager that the area was unclearly marked and you failed to observe a drop zone (which there normally is for this type of situation near the green.  When a drop zone is marked off, you always take your drop there, regardless of where your nearest point of relief may have been.

So, a lot to explain so little:)

If you were just dying to be lying below the pin you could claim the cart path as your initial nearest point of relief, and then take relief from the path, but F below is the best you can do (again, as long as the beds are out of play).

Just remember, if where you drop is closer to the pin than where you started, or farther away from where you could have dropped (even though less desirable), your cheating.  I'd've taken B rather than play over the sand at F, and if B and C really were both equidistant and neither advanced my ball, take the more difficult play---then there is no doubt.

Apologies, none of my drawings went through.  Lie F would have been behind the bed and to the right of the path.  Ah well.