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Should Ernie Els Get a Masters Invitation?

Poll Results: Should Ernie get an invite to the Masters?

Poll expired: Apr 30, 2012  
  • 53% (29)
    Yes
  • 46% (25)
    No
54 Total Votes  
post #1 of 145
3/19/12 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
With Ernie losing the lead yesterday and not winning the Transitions he is outside of where he needs to be to receive an invitaiton to the Masters. Last year Ernie slipped outside of the top 50 in the world. You have to go back 20 years -- to the end of 1992 when he was ranked 40th -- to find him that low. By falling outside of the top 50, Els saw a Masters invite slip through his grasp. He started the Transitions at 68th in the world, and moved to only 62nd with his tie for fifth. Next week's Arnold Palmer Invitational is the last chance to get into the top 50, and he's likely in need of a victory there, too, to crack the top 50. Short of that, his only way into the Masters would be a win at the Shell Houston Open.

There is always the possibility of a special invitation based on his hall of fame status. So the question is, should he get an invite?

Here's an article Tim Rosaforte wrote making a plea for Ernie
http://www.golfworldmonday.com/golfworldmonday/20120319/?pg=24&pm=1&u1=friend#pg24
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post #2 of 145
3/19/12 at 3:43pm
How can you say no to this?

Poor guy. a5_crying.gif
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post #3 of 145
3/19/12 at 3:54pm
I don't think he wants to be treated as a charity case.
He would want to be there on merit, according to the tournament criteria.
Of course, they could offer him a special invitation, but being the type of person he is, Els would probably not want it.

On a side note, I wouldn't want to have the job of interviewing shattered golfers, and he's under pressure from producers to interview players, win or lose, but that was a shameful display by Sands. How could Els respond - his nervous laugh was the equivalent of, but a bit classier than a Woods "death stare" IMO.
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post #4 of 145
3/19/12 at 3:59pm
I agree that he'd want to be there on merit rather than special circumstances; it'd just be a nice gesture.

Seemed to be more of a "seriously? You're asking me such a stupid question?" along with extremely high emotions. Looked pretty close to tears from where I was sitting. :(
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post #5 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:07pm
I have no idea what the criteria is for a Masters invite, but would really like Els to get one. If you look up the expression "poetry in motion" you'll find a video of Els' swing next to it. One never tires of watching that swing.
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post #6 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:15pm
I understand it's supposed to be the 'masters', but I would like to see the field expanded maybe to the top 75 in the world golf rankings. Every year you have some player from the Asian or some other somewhat obscure tour getting a special invite and more deserving players are left out, with the excuse of trying to 'grow the global game' or something.
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post #7 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post

I understand it's supposed to be the 'masters', but I would like to see the field expanded maybe to the top 75 in the world golf rankings. Every year you have some player from the Asian or some other somewhat obscure tour getting a special invite and more deserving players are left out, with the excuse of trying to 'grow the global game' or something.

Care to name an example?
Asian Tour =Obscure tour? Are you kidding? Golf in Asia is probably bigger than it is in the U.S.A. Heading that way, anyway.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf-asia-to-top-world-in-15-years-says-wsg-boss-2303797.html

Which "more deserving players"? You mean English speaking ones, presumably.
And...what is wrong with growing the game globally. Might give it a chance of surviving.
If you want to watch something so sickening it will turn you off golf, tune in to the Tavistock Cup.
Makes all the Caddyshack style Country Club stereotypes look pretty accurate.

How can you get in?
Masters Tournament Champions (Lifetime)
U.S. Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
The Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
PGA Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
Winners of the Players Championship (Three years)
Current U.S. Amateur Champion (6-A) (Honorary, non-competing after one year); Runner-up (6-B) to the current U.S. Amateur Champion
Current British Amateur Champion (Honorary, non-competing after one year)
Current Asian Amateur Champion
Current U.S. Amateur Public Links Champion
Current U.S. Mid-Amateur Champion
The first 16 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Masters Tournament
The first 8 players, including ties, in the previous year’s U.S. Open
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Open Championship
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s PGA Championship
The 30 leaders on the Final Official PGA Tour Money List for the previous calendar year
Winners of PGA Tour Regular Season and Playoff events that award at least a full-point allocation for the season-ending Tour Championship, from previous Masters to current Masters
Those qualifying for the previous year’s season-ending Tour Championship
The 50 leaders on the Final Official World Golf Ranking for the previous calendar year
The 50 leaders on the Official World Golf Ranking published during the week prior to the current Masters Tournament
Edited by Shorty - 3/19/12 at 4:43pm
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post #8 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post

I understand it's supposed to be the 'masters', but I would like to see the field expanded maybe to the top 75 in the world golf rankings. Every year you have some player from the Asian or some other somewhat obscure tour getting a special invite and more deserving players are left out, with the excuse of trying to 'grow the global game' or something.


I agree. Even the top 100. It is a little too exclusive for my liking.
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post #9 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post

I understand it's supposed to be the 'masters', but I would like to see the field expanded maybe to the top 75 in the world golf rankings. Every year you have some player from the Asian or some other somewhat obscure tour getting a special invite and more deserving players are left out, with the excuse of trying to 'grow the global game' or something.



That's actually not true.  The only thing remotely resembling that is that they invite last years US-am, US-Mid am, US am publinks, British am, Asian am champions (and US am runner up).  I would hardly call any of those "obscure."  Otherwise, its all tied to World golf rankings, PGA event winners, PGA money list, and Major Championship accomplishments.

 

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post #10 of 145
3/19/12 at 4:53pm

Not if he can't make a few putts from four feet.

 

Augusta is about putting.

 

At the same time, the pundits say the Masters has the weakest field of all the Majors. They CAN open it up. It's not as if there are a lot of bodies playing -- it's fairly limited.

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post #11 of 145
3/19/12 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post


Care to name an example?
Asian Tour =Obscure tour? Are you kidding? Golf in Asia is probably bigger than it is in the U.S.A. Heading that way, anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf-asia-to-top-world-in-15-years-says-wsg-boss-2303797.html
Which "more deserving players"? You mean English speaking ones, presumably.
And...what is wrong with growing the game globally. Might give it a chance of surviving.
If you want to watch something so sickening it will turn you off golf, tune in to the Tavistock Cup.
Makes all the Caddyshack style Country Club stereotypes look pretty accurate.
How can you get in?
Masters Tournament Champions (Lifetime)
U.S. Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
The Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
PGA Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
Winners of the Players Championship (Three years)
Current U.S. Amateur Champion (6-A) (Honorary, non-competing after one year); Runner-up (6-B) to the current U.S. Amateur Champion
Current British Amateur Champion (Honorary, non-competing after one year)
Current Asian Amateur Champion
Current U.S. Amateur Public Links Champion
Current U.S. Mid-Amateur Champion
The first 16 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Masters Tournament
The first 8 players, including ties, in the previous year’s U.S. Open
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Open Championship
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s PGA Championship
The 30 leaders on the Final Official PGA Tour Money List for the previous calendar year
Winners of PGA Tour Regular Season and Playoff events that award at least a full-point allocation for the season-ending Tour Championship, from previous Masters to current Masters
Those qualifying for the previous year’s season-ending Tour Championship
The 50 leaders on the Final Official World Golf Ranking for the previous calendar year
The 50 leaders on the Official World Golf Ranking published during the week prior to the current Masters Tournament


or be called Ryo Ishikawa. He got a special invite before his recent 2nd place got him back in the top 50.

 

No problem giving spots to other tours but give them to players that qualify not on the most popular.

 

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post #12 of 145
3/19/12 at 5:43pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post


Which "more deserving players"? You mean English speaking ones, presumably.

First, I have nothing against Asian players or any other country or ethnicity.  And, I don't care what language they speak or any other criteria except that they can play golf, don't put words in my mouth.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post


Care to name an example?
Asian Tour =Obscure tour? Are you kidding? Golf in Asia is probably bigger than it is in the U.S.A. Heading that way, anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf-asia-to-top-world-in-15-years-says-wsg-boss-2303797.html
Which "more deserving players"? You mean English speaking ones, presumably.
And...what is wrong with growing the game globally. Might give it a chance of surviving.
If you want to watch something so sickening it will turn you off golf, tune in to the Tavistock Cup.
Makes all the Caddyshack style Country Club stereotypes look pretty accurate.
How can you get in?
Masters Tournament Champions (Lifetime)
U.S. Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
The Open Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
PGA Champions (Honorary, non-competing after five years)
Winners of the Players Championship (Three years)
Current U.S. Amateur Champion (6-A) (Honorary, non-competing after one year); Runner-up (6-B) to the current U.S. Amateur Champion
Current British Amateur Champion (Honorary, non-competing after one year)
Current Asian Amateur Champion
Current U.S. Amateur Public Links Champion
Current U.S. Mid-Amateur Champion
The first 16 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Masters Tournament
The first 8 players, including ties, in the previous year’s U.S. Open
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s Open Championship
The first 4 players, including ties, in the previous year’s PGA Championship
The 30 leaders on the Final Official PGA Tour Money List for the previous calendar year
Winners of PGA Tour Regular Season and Playoff events that award at least a full-point allocation for the season-ending Tour Championship, from previous Masters to current Masters
Those qualifying for the previous year’s season-ending Tour Championship
The 50 leaders on the Final Official World Golf Ranking for the previous calendar year
The 50 leaders on the Official World Golf Ranking published during the week prior to the current Masters Tournament

But, yes, I do consider the Asian tour to be a step below the level of the PGA and European professional tours.  Yes, there are some very good Asian players, but overall, the current level of golf on those tours (while they are growing) is currently a bit below the PGA and European tours.

 

Here's a list of some players getting special exemptions, that otherwise would not have gotten into the field.  (from this article)

 

Lian-Wei Zhang (2004)

Shingo Katayama ('05)

Thongchai Jaidee ('06)

Hideto Tanihara ('07)

Liang Wen-Chong ('08)

Prayad Marksaeng ('08)

Jeev Milka Singh ('08)

Ishikawa ('09 and '12)

 

On this list, only Jeev Milkha Singh (T25) and Katayama (T33) made the cut. 

 

Should these players continue to be invited?  Sure, it's usually only 1 or 2 players a year.  Maybe I didn't phrase things correctly.  I think growing the game globally is fine, but doing it at the expense of other higher ranked players is subjective.  And that's where I tend to disagree with things. 

 

Hideto Tanihara was ranked 68th in '07 and got a special invite to the Master's that year.  I'm sure there were many golfers ranked numbers 51-67 that were just as good and equally deserving.  If the criteria were expanded to the top 75 in the WGR, I think most (if not all) of the 'special invitees' would get in and the tournament would be a better overall field.

 

World ranking points are awarded now to players on many other professional tours and the WGR system has led to their growth and the growth of golf overall.  Once again, I think this is a good thing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post


Care to name an example?
Asian Tour =Obscure tour? Are you kidding? Golf in Asia is probably bigger than it is in the U.S.A. Heading that way, anyway.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf-asia-to-top-world-in-15-years-says-wsg-boss-2303797.html
 

From what I've read, golf is exceedingly expensive in Japan and is an all-day event.  Heck, that article even talks about the number of golfers in Japan on the decline.  It says that while there are 10 million golfers, there are only 2,450 golf courses.  Compare that to the US with 25 millions golfers and 13,600 courses, and I don't see Japan eclipsing the US.  If you look at China, then this is an interesing bit (from wikipedia).

 

Quote:
At the amateur level, golf is seen as the top recreational sport for businesspeople and officials. Because of their relatively high position in Chinese society, they are usually the only people with access to the sport of golf on mainland China. At the 2007 National People's Congress, caving in to the popular acknowledgment that the building of new golf courses is not only a waste of public funds but an illegal use of space, Premier Wen Jiabao said in his Work Report to the Congress that contracts in building new golf courses should be highly discouraged.

 

 

I'll take my 4.5 hour round at a course 15 minutes from my house for $25 twilight, any day.

 

@Eric - perhaps this is off-topic, maybe is should be made into another thread?

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post #13 of 145
3/19/12 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post

Should these players continue to be invited?  Sure, it's usually only 1 or 2 players a year.  Maybe I didn't phrase things correctly.  I think growing the game globally is fine, but doing it at the expense of other higher ranked players is subjective.  And that's where I tend to disagree with things. 

 

Hideto Tanihara was ranked 68th in '07 and got a special invite to the Master's that year.  I'm sure there were many golfers ranked numbers 51-67 that were just as good and equally deserving.  If the criteria were expanded to the top 75 in the WGR, I think most (if not all) of the 'special invitees' would get in and the tournament would be a better overall field.

There is no set number of spots, so if they choose to invite Ryo Ishikawa, it is not "at the expense" of Ernie Els.  If Els doesn't get invited, it's solely because they didn't want to invite him.

 

Also, if they expanded to the top 75 and retained the special invite then the debate wouldn't end, it would just slide over 25 spots.  It's got to cutoff somewhere, they chose 50, seems fine by me.

 

And, putting like he did yesterday, Ernie isn't going to do much at the Masters anyway.

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post #14 of 145
3/19/12 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Also, if they expanded to the top 75 and retained the special invite then the debate wouldn't end, it would just slide over 25 spots.  It's got to cutoff somewhere, they chose 50, seems fine by me.

 

And, putting like he did yesterday, Ernie isn't going to do much at the Masters anyway.


You are correct, that why I would expand it to top 75 and get rid of the special invite.  Of course you have to have a cutoff somewhere, I was simply stating that the top 50 with some special, somewhat arbitrary, invites is limiting it in a very subjective way.  That being said, I love the Master's tournament and I'm glued to it every year, so perhaps I don't know anything as they seem to be doing something right?

 

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post #15 of 145
3/19/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post


You are correct, that why I would expand it to top 75 and get rid of the special invite.  Of course you have to have a cutoff somewhere, I was simply stating that the top 50 with some special, somewhat arbitrary, invites is limiting it in a very subjective way.  That being said, I love the Master's tournament and I'm glued to it every year, so perhaps I don't know anything as they seem to be doing something right?

 


Can't really argue with that.  Once you drop the special invites it becomes 100% objective and there can be no arguments like this one re: Ernie.

 

Is he in the top 75 right now, or would he still be out of luck?
 

 

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post #16 of 145
3/19/12 at 6:59pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer View Post

@Eric - perhaps this is off-topic, maybe is should be made into another thread?


I think it's on topic. If Ernie can or can't get an exemption then the other exemptions they offer is fair game.

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post #17 of 145
3/19/12 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Is he in the top 75 right now, or would he still be out of luck?


Looks like he's currently at 62, so by your system Geek, he'd be in.
 

 

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post #18 of 145
3/19/12 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post


Looks like he's currently at 62, so by your system Geek, he'd be in.
 

 


Right, I believe he deserves to get in based on his current ranking.

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