My Swing (Jetfan1983)

I've been Playing Golf for:​ First picked up a club on May 1st, 2008. Didn't play once in 2009 due to a back injury. Played maybe ten times in 2010. Struggled to play in 2011 due to CTS issues which I now manage. Stack and Tilt saved me from hurting my back anymore, and now I no longer have issues with that. I've had my most productive season in 2012, practicing three times a week or so for the past three or four months. In total, I've logged about 500 or so lifetime hours of golf, but I've logged about 230 hours this season alone.

My current handicap index or average score is: I don't know. I think about a 12? I make so many terrible, newb mistakes out on the course. I play 6500 yard courses, but I have more than enough power to play them. I usually have no more than 9-iron for my approach shots when playing 6500 yards. I can hit my driver 280+ on a good swing. 230-250 on a poor one. 260 on an okay swing.

My typical ball flight is: I've been taught to play a push-draw, but I just recently changed my attachments to play a push-fade. I can hit both flights. I can play a pull-fade with my driver by moving the ball well forward in my stance, but I only do that on the range.

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Hook, block

56 degree sand wedge

Working on staying in my tilt here and keeping my shoulders steep. I apologize for placing the camera too far to the left. I will fix that for next time.

All these swings were push-draws I think. I only yesterday decided I want to play push-fades for a while.

Pitching Wedge

Working on the same things as above. My swing is too long here and I know my hand depth is bad. I'm really surprised I don't have a cup in my wrist at A4, since it feels like I do. Props to Mike here because I was working on stuff he wrote about recently (keeping steep shoulders from A4 to A5)

4-Iron

Working on keeping my trail arm straighter in the backswing and having straight arms in the follow-through here. I practice this hitting punch shots, so I chipped this 4-iron about 170 yards. Unfortunately, I flipped because normally I need to think about wrist arching, but I didn't in this swing. Contact was fine though if I recall.

3-wood

I was working solely on rolling my front foot onto its outstep here to assist my hip slide, which I used to struggle with. Looks like I over-did that a bit. My swing gets too long. Looks like I had some interested observers in the background and didn't notice that until I got home. Not really happy with this swing, but it is what it is. I'll post some driver swings in the future. 

If anyone cares, this is what my swing looked like about a year into playing golf. Forgive the long hair  I've made a lot of changes since then in a limited amount of practice. I wish I could practice more.

8-iron, 10 months after discovering golf. My first ever swing I filmed. 

I want to thank Erik for getting me this far, even if we've never met. It has been through his efforts that I can play as well as I can now. I also want to thank Steve Sieracki (my primary instructor), Lainey Gunning, Dave Quinn, Glen Fanara, Mike Bennett, Andy Plummer, and Mike McLoughlin, as well as David Wedzik and all the posters whom I follow on this site for all the knowledge they've imparted to me over the years -- especially all the Golf Evolution students here, but not exclusively.

I feel like I can play good golf with this swing, but I just don't have much experience. I have to stay patient and working hard. I've been self-teaching myself for a few months now, and am really enjoying the process of using my accumulated knowledge on myself 

Current Faults and What I'm Working On:

1. I don't have enough hand-depth and my hands get too high on the backswing, above my shoulders. Somehow, I have a little two plane swing, with a little Furyk move. I blame Erik since I stole the "steep to shallow" idea from his swing thread 

2. My right arm folds beyond 90 degrees on the backswing if I don't monitor it. I own a swing extender, but I just try to keep both arms straight on the backswing and that fixes it. This fault contributes to pushes and hooks if it gets out of hand.

3. I cock my wrists very early in the swing and probably should slow that down, but I'm not working on that.

4. I over-rotate my shoulders on the downswing sometimes and hit hooks. I just think about rolling my ankles to assist hip slide and that fixes it. I also close my shoulders at address on most swings to prevent this.

5. I battle a flip when I don't work on educating my hands, but I fix this by squeezing my elbows together and feeling wrist arch. If I overdo it, the handle rises too much on the follow-through and I hit hooks and blocks, but being that I'm aware of this, I know how to not overdo it nearly as much these days. It took me a while to figure this one out.

6. I lose side-tilt, but I fix that with more ankle rolling and actually feeling like I'm manually adding tilt. I monitor head movement with my camera. I usually always hit a block when the side-tilt goes and my head raises up. Wall drill work fixes this.

7. My head moves about too much and I have various ways of working on this, both on the backswing and downswing.

8. Sometimes I don't flare out my feet enough at address. This is a piece designed to facilitate hip slide and the proper ankle rolling with my trail foot banking on its instep before rising up.

9. I added thinking about my right index finger after watching the Five Keys DVD, in regards to Key #3 (flat left wrist).

10. Sometimes I don't feel enough pressure on my front foot on the backswing with longer clubs. This feel is critical for me to getting good contact with my 3 and 4 iron.

11. My arms retract on the follow through, but I hit punch shots and half swings to work on this.

12. I lose shoulder steepness from A4 to A5 and in my first two videos here, I'm working on that (I stole this from Mike's swing thread and the axis tilt thread post he made there).

Thanks for taking the time to check out my swing and my progress. Feel free to share your thoughts at any time.

Wow, now I feel like a true member of this site 

My Lesson/Knowledge Background: 12 Stack and Tilt Lessons (Steve Sieracki, Lainey Gunning, Dave Quinn). Four hours of Aimpoint (Keith Handler). The Sandtrap.com avid reader and contributor. Looking to take a lesson from Five Keys instructor Mario Bevelaqua in Colts Neck, NJ sometime soon.

Camera: Casio EX-FH100

I'll update my progress as the days go by....

Poser: Thanks so much for the very kind words of encouragement. That was exactly what I needed to hear/read right now from a motivational stand-point. I get so down on myself when I can't put it together out there, being unable to control curve, double crossing myself, short siding myself. In one sense it's a good thing that I can spot faults and fix them, but on the other hand, it's bad that I can see so many and sometimes I get confused over which is the priority and how I should go about fixing the problem. I know I should stay positive because my swing is vastly better and different from where I started from. I still can't believe how much my swing has changed since I first filmed it. I pretty much had nothing good going on in the beginning, born with zero pieces. 

Yes, back injuries suck, and you can see why I hurt myself: I kept twisting around my lumbar spine, staying in flexion the entire time. I had to play every ball off my back foot so I could hit the ball before the ground, hitting about 100 yard 7-irons. 

Erik: Thank you for taking the time to look at my swing and offer your input. I see exactly what you are saying. By not letting my trail arm fold at the correct rate, I cannot achieve the proper hand depth. I also run the risk of my right arm/elbow moving behind me, which is clearly a mistake as the right arm's primary role is only to bend and extend (I think another reason I did all this was because I'm so scared of getting the club stuck behind me). This fix is counter-intuitive to me because of my fear of folding it beyond 90 degrees, but I obviously won't worry about that during practice and can monitor it with the camera.

So for next time:

1) Let right arm fold at the proper rate. I'll try to match Grant in that picture you provided. This should give me the hand depth I need and lower my left arm at A4, getting back onto the plane. 

2) Keep working on shoulder steepness from A4 to A5 and staying in my tilt.

I'm bitter I can't practice today, but hopefully I can tomorrow. Worst case scenario is I have to wait until Monday to work on stuff. Thanks for the replies, and I'll take them to heart. 

Thanks, Erik and Mike for your help here. I really, really appreciate it. 

Mike, I will add that address piece of bending my right arm next time.

I hit balls for about four hours today and filmed about 40 swings. Contact was bad throughout and I hit a number of fat shots, blocks, and hooks. It was bright out so I had difficulty seeing the screen of my camera, so I thought I was bending my arm more by A2. Looking at the video clips now though at home I can see that I didn't do it once. Ouch. Looks like I wasted that session but at least now I know I wasn't doing it at all despite feeling like I was. I hit some good shots and went to half-swings most of the time, but ultimately it was a day of frustration. I was seriously so angry and bitter out there that I couldn't do it, and the tension in my mind mounted as I teed up more and more balls. It was like one good ball for every five balls today contact wise, but now I'm even more bitter that even the good balls didn't have enough arm bend. 

I was hoping to post a clip of the change here, but that will have to wait until my next session when I really over-do this plus adding that set-up piece. The only two positives from today were I did get my hands to go a lot more inward and my left arm consistently matched my shoulders at A4, so it wasn't a total loss, but I'm not happy at all right now. 

Thank you though for all your help, guys, and I still believe in this change. I'm just going to have to suck it up and take today's brutal session like a man. I'm not giving up this easily. I'll have a clip worthy of posting next time. I'm going to exaggerate the shit out of this. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevrino 

I know the feeling going to the range and staying there for hours not achieving what you came there to do. Well i'll be waiting with excitement for the next swing video.

 

 

Thanks, nerivno. I guess we better used to it right? I'll be we're not the only two frustrated golfers on the planet. Yea, I wonder when I'll get another video up. Hopefully soon. Practice opportunities may be limited this week, but I'll follow up.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983 

Current Faults and What I'm Working On:

 

1. I don't have enough hand-depth and my hands get too high on the backswing, above my shoulders. Somehow, I have a little two plane swing, with a little Furyk move.

2. My right arm folds beyond 90 degrees on the backswing if I don't monitor it. I own a swing extender, but I just try to keep both arms straight on the backswing and that fixes it. This fault contributes to pushes and hooks if it gets out of hand.

3. I cock my wrists very early in the swing and probably should slow that down, but I'm not working on that.

4. I over-rotate my shoulders on the downswing sometimes and hit hooks. I just think about rolling my ankles to assist hip slide and that fixes it. I also close my shoulders at address on most swings to prevent this.

5. I battle a flip when I don't work on educating my hands, but I fix this by squeezing my elbows together and feeling wrist arch. If I overdo it, the handle rises too much on the follow-through and I hit hooks and blocks, but being that I'm aware of this, I know how to not overdo it nearly as much these days.

6. I lose side-tilt, but I fix that with more ankle rolling and actually feeling like I'm manually adding tilt. I monitor head movement with my camera. I usually always hit a block when the side-tilt goes and my head raises up. Wall drill work fixes this.

7. My head moves about too much and I have various ways of working on this, both on the backswing and downswing.

8. Sometimes I don't flare out my feet enough at address. This is a piece designed to facilitate hip slide and the proper ankle rolling with my trail foot banking on its instep before rising up.

9. I added thinking about my right index finger after watching the Five Keys DVD, in regards to Key #3 (flat left wrist).

10. Sometimes I don't feel enough pressure on my front foot on the backswing with longer clubs.

11. My arms retract on the follow through, but I hit punch shots and half swings to work on this.

12. I lose shoulder steepness from A4 to A5 and in my first two videos here,

 

Twelve different things to think about? Paralysis by analysis.

Oh come on, Harmonious. That's all I get from you? 

I don't think about that stuff when I play. In fact, the only thing I'm thinking about right now is what Erik and Mike want me to think about. So, like one thing. Then after 10-20 balls, I switch to no.12 on that list and do that for 10-20 balls. On the course, I only use three swing thoughts and only one at time, based on what my swing needs at that moment: 1) Roll my ankles 2) Manually add side-tilt or 3) Bow my wrist on the downswing.

Number one is for when I don't have enough weight forward. Number two is when I'm extending too early. And number three is when I start getting thin contact.

Now, I don't see why it's such a bad thing that I'm aware of some of my faults and that I made a list in my OP of what I occasionally work on and think about when practicing at the range or when I'm away from golf. Yes, I'm a highly technical player, but I wasn't given the ability to improve without using my left brain to spot faults, learn about them and why they occur, and what I should actually be trying to do in order to fix them. I think without that, I'd still be hitting 100 yard seven irons. 

Paralysis would mean I had the inability to act or function anymore. In fact the opposite is true. I know where to go next, thanks to Mike and Erik. I honestly believe my deficiencies as a golfer stem from my lack of hours played. That of course is just my opinion, but it seems like a logical one.

In terms of what Erik and Mike want me to change, yes I failed in that attempt during my first range session. But, I will find a feel that achieves what I need to eventually. When that is, I don't know yet. 

I haven't updated this in a while, so I thought I'd throw a DTL swing with my gap wedge out there, just to keep the progress going here.

Obviously the fold rate of my right arm isn't where you guys want it to be, but it is better at A3 and A4. A2 its still about the same. It feels like I'm folding it immediately, even though it isn't. For people who are wondering about this piece: 1) having a proper fold rate allows you to have a backswing that comfortably finishes well before parallel -- if its too straight, you don't have enough right arm to start your downswing, and 2) this probably only happens to people who have been practicing "straight arms" a lot -- a common S&T drill for people who fold their trail arm beyond 90 degrees on the backswing. There are other reasons this is important, but for me, those are the two relevant reasons I think.

I'll give this piece more time at the range in the future. I promise, I'm a good student, and I listen, but man does my contact go south fast when I practice this piece, even when doing quarter swings... I'm not giving up on it though.

In this swing, I'm working on key #3 (Steady Head). I have too much side-tilt on the backswing and my head dips forward, and then I extend too early and my head comes up on the downswing. The feel I'm working with right now is "head goes up on the backswing" and "head goes down on the downswing." 

You can see I've cleaned up some other stuff too: More forearm roll on the backswing, arms matching the shoulder plane better, shorter backswing, better (but not great) fold rate of the trail arm on the backswing -- and a steadier head.

I love working on Key #3 because of how much better my contact is when I play. I really, really, really need to fix this. I think I am still extending too early on the downswing in this video as my head comes up slightly and my shoulders and hips look too closed.

And that leads me to the last, but not least, thing I am working on which is rotating more on the downswing with my hips and shoulders as I know I am still too closed at impact (I did so many drills to prevent me from spinning out in the previous months that I overdid that too).

I don't have any putting videos but I changed some things here too: 

1) I'm standing closer to the ball now. 8 inches from the ball to be exact. I was told by a David Orr understudy that 8-10 inches is good for someone with my build using a heel shafted putter.

2) I added a lot of neck tilt at address so I could see my line clearly when I turned my head. Nice change here.

3) I am using a stroke in which I am feeling like the putter head is rising vertically after impact rather than tracking back inside too quickly. I fight a pull and this has really been working. We'll see how it goes (this is a Geoff Mangum concept if anyone wonders where I got this idea).

4) ball position is just under my left ear. 

Anyway, a steady head has been a huge issue of mine since I started playing golf, and its high time I fixed this. I was hitting it so solidly when working on this piece.

This goes without saying but any questions, comments or suggestions are always welcome on my thread, regardless of differences in philosophies or whatever. Thanks, guys.

PS- I worked with Mike Bennett a few times last week during a S&T instructor clinic and he suggested the steady head/more rotation fixes. It was there that I met some David Orr guys. I also met John Graham too, which was really cool. 

PPS- James Ridyard, Mike Bennett, Andy Plummer, and Lainey Gunning asked me to hit some 6-irons off trackman during the clinic for them -- in front of like 30 teaches observing it -- and I'm happy to report that I average 190 yards of carry with that club. Bennett was so psyched 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber 

First, nice swing!  If you have some full speed video of recent swings, I'd like to see that as well.  Just to see the tempo in full speed is nice.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983 

PPS- James Ridyard, Mike Bennett, Andy Plummer, and Lainey Gunning asked me to hit some 6-irons off trackman during the clinic for them -- in front of like 30 teaches observing it -- and I'm happy to report that I average 190 yards of carry with that club. Bennett was so psyched 

Damn! That is a mashed 6i!! 

Thanks, man! Considering my 6-iron was my 130 yard club on a good swing or something like that 18 months ago, I'm really happy with that number. It's a good foundation for shooting better scores eventually. A lot needs to improve still in all facets: chipping, putting, etc. and I still have low point issues because my hands aren't fully trained yet. That may take awhile, but I'll keep working at it. A lot of these pieces in that above swing are not ingrained either, so I have a lot of work to do.

Sorry about not posting any full speed swings yet on this thread (besides my awful pre-lessons swing). I'll remember to film one for next time (whenever that is....). 

For that swing above, I was swinging pretty slowly. I think that gap wedge I hit flew about 90 yards? I've been really forcing myself to slow down when I practice and play so I have a bigger margin for error on the downswing. I really wish I could swing fast like they do on TV, but unfortunately, my success rate with that is really low... as one would expect from an amateur golfer with not much experience or volume under his belt. 

OK, this post is relevant to me adding more arm bend at A2:

Ok may be the greatest post I've ever made 

 

As I showed in my last post, Charlie Wi is working on getting the right forearm/elbow to work more vertically, more external rotation.  What would happen a few years ago is that the right elbow would get behind his shirt seam, effecting how everything was loading and unloading.  Very hard to create or sustain leverage when those arms over flex or when the arms can't release down.

 

What creates the hand depth is the knees changing flex, left shoulder working down and flexing of the right elbow.  Charlie almost counter rotates his forearms or did and that will tend to have the hands going more in, and vice versa, more forearm rotation early, hands tend to work out.  Charlie Wi vs Fred Couples from A1-2.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber 

 

Regarding P2 (or A2)... It is pretty easy to hit A2 for me now... But it wasn't until I fully understood the some of the basic bio-mechanics, and checkpoints to look for to ensure I was hitting the proper positions and alignments.

 

The challenge then became how do I consistently hit A3 and A4.  I can do A3 and A4 proficiently by focusing and studying the wrist conditions that were required to hit these positions.  I think this is the mystery that many golfers miss, when they see a professionals swing the club.  They don't understand the subtle movements that are required to square the club at A2, and get it on plane at A3, A4 to A5, etc..  

 

 

Look at Jason Dufner at A2.  For me, to get to A2 and beyond, all I think about is the following:

 

(1.) My left shoulder needs to ultimately move down under my chin.  (I know I've reached the top of my back swing when my shoulder is under my chin)

(2.) I keep a rigid and straight left arm by maintaining firm pressure points (1 through 4).

 

 

A lot of good points here.  What I'm about to describe is specific to certain components, specific to a certain pattern.  This is NOT what everyone needs to do to play good golf nor is it what I teach everyone.  Gotta make that clear lol

 

 

 

 

 

The video of where I got the pics above

 

Shawn working with Grant on that right elbow (I'm filming)

 

Thanks, Mike (and Grant Waite) and Dana.

I'm going to squeeze my right arm into my right armpit from A1 to A2 (That's Dana D giving that tip in video two right?) because that clearly states how to do this, and Mike, what you wrote above clearly states why this important and how it correlates to the three pressure points in this region of the body.

I shot you a thumbs up on the original post.

Aaaaaaaand, this is just another reason why this site is awesome. Now I'm glad I can't really sleep right now and saw this reply. Although, I'm going to bed right after this....

There were 5 or 6 people gathered around the computer after I hit those 6-irons, so it was difficult getting in there to see the numbers... and as soon as I was done hitting, they had another student jump on after me. Ugh, I wish I could remember path and clubface angle. Ughhhh, now that you asked me that question I wish I remembered or specifically asked to see this. I doubt I have access to Trackman for a while. This was my only time ever using it.

The numbers I do remember were 90-91 mph clubhead speed and a smash factor of 1.36 or 1.38 or something like that. I might have gotten one up to 1.45 as my best one. I was using my on-course swing thoughts, both downswing swing thoughts: rotate and feel a very small amount of palmar flexion... and they worked out for me. These are my best swing thoughts to use for solid contact. 

1.5 is max smash factor right?

Keep in mind I was using a JPX-825 Mizuno iron which has stronger lofts on it, but I was hitting high push draws. I hooked one, but I knew immediately it was because I early extended (head came off the wall). 

I know James Ridyard is a respected Trackman guy so it was really cool seeing these numbers for the first time. I was the most nervous about my swing path numbers because of how far to the right I know I swing on bad swings -- I cannot believe I didn't check that, and I probably would have if I was hooking everything in front of those teachers. I just went right for the sexy numbers: carry, swing speed, and smash factor.

***

OK, less flare out with the right foot. Got it. It's a hilarious thing how many of my issues are over-exaggerated good tips -- arm too straight, too much palmar flexion, too much extension with not enough rotation, handle rising too much, too slow a rate of closure sometimes, maybe not enough flexion in my trail knee at A5.... I'm a good example as to what happens or can happen to a student who gets a lot of lessons with good teachers.

And this is also an example of why a tip's magic can fizzle out over time -- you actually start to over do it and it becomes an issue. That's why I realize now how critical it is for a golfer to understand "the spectrum" if you will. Like palmar on one end and dorsi on the other, for example. Extension on one end, and flexion on the other, etc. That way, one has a chance to monitor himself better.

***

Following your swing thread, Mike, I noticed my left arm is too far in at A5, but since i'm not close to a scratch golfer, thats probably not an issue right now. But I do notice it... And this is cool, but I took that post you wrote about yourself and Summerhays keeping the shoulder steepness at A5, and it looks like I actually am making that happen now consistently as I never think about that when I swing. I also got rid of the palmar flexed wrist condition at A4 somehow. That's probably a solid reason why I hit more pushes than hooks when I miss now. The good news is the push actually stays on planet earth most of the time and I can recover from that.

But yea, I do flare my feet out like crazy. I'll cut down on that on the right foot and see what happens.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me. 

Guys: Online lessons? Really awesome.

PS- That face on picture of Mike Bennett in your post above? I had no idea you could play a long iron that far back... but sure enough, he was doing it all week long last week. As long as the face-path relationship is healthy, it works great. I dunno, I thought that was really interesting. Really high push draws with a 4-iron that far back. Enlightening stuff. OK I'm rambling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983 

1.5 is max smash factor right?

 

With a driver. Obviously the more loft you add the less clubhead speed translates into ball speed... The max smash factor with a lob wedge might be less than 1.0 on a well-struck lob wedge (a bladed one lob wedge, you could imagine, would have a higher smash factor than a well-struck lob wedge).

Oh okay. Oops. Then I definitely didn't get one up to 1.45.

Although, that might have been the one I hooked, if I did.

I do recall seeing numbers in the 1.3X range though. And one in the 1.2 range.