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Titleist Commercials - Pro V1/Pro V1x - Does Compression Matter?

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 

Anyone seen these commercials where Titleist is claiming that there is little or no benefit to higher compression/softer golf balls for medium and slower swing speeds? Any truth or science behind this? (They show high speed camera pics that seem to show compression similarities, but I don't think the data for those tests is available.)

 

I ask because the common belief that I hear on this forum, and in real life in general is that a softer, more easily compressed golf ball will go farther for those with slower swing speeds. Also, this commonly believed theory seems to pass my own 'common sense' test.

 

Having said that, i'm not a scientist.. or a good golfer, for that matter!

 

What do we think?

post #2 of 49
Thread Starter 

Also, before anyone asks, I play a mixture of balls, to include Titleist NXT Tour S's and Callaway Hex Chromes. I have no brand loyalty or aversion when it comes to balls. Would love to try some Srixons and Bridgestones as well. But I definitely don't want to be excluding harder balls from my bag just because of my medium swing speed. I do like the feel of softer balls. But i'm not so much looking for recommendations, as opening up debate in general on the topic.

 

Not trying to beat up Ttileist, but the claim caught me off guard since I have been led to believe the opposite. Wanted to open up the debate.

 

Cheers!  c2_beer.gif

post #3 of 49
I asked this same question. Srixon and Bridgestone tell you playing a tour ball hurts your game. But titleist tell you fitting a ball to swing speed is a myth and that you should play a tour ball. I have tested Bridgestone e6 and srixon q star Nike pd soft callaway diablo tour soft feel etc. to be honest my play testing agrees with titleist. I have been playing prov1x and the penta tp5 I score better with the tour balls and they feel nicer off the club and especially putter

I'm a 15 hc and I can tell you like most amateurs most of my wasted shots are wedge shot chip shot and putting these are what kill your score you have a bad green side game you won't break 100. If you hit a driver offline you can recover you only hit 18 drives maybe say 14 considering par 3. Where are most of your shots around the green. For me this is where the tour balls excel much better green side and for me a great feel off the putter the roll and feel is brilliant.

As tiger woods once said its no accident my father taught me greens first then to the long irons and driver. Why? Because most of your game is around the green. Keep track next time you play of how many wasted shots you have on the green.

Will playing a prov1 make you the next tiger woods probably not but for me I'll play the tour balls from now on because for me they work on the greens and that to me is what matters. If I hit a cheap or mid tier ball now they feel like rocks and I dont enjoy it. Find what works for you and stick to 1 ball all the trying new balls swapping and changing is no good. Stick to one ball. My firm belief is play the best ball you can afford. For me that's the titleist prov1x.
post #4 of 49
Thread Starter 

Your view sounds fair to me! Thanks for the input!

 

I am a very high handicapper, (as in, not a member anywhere, and I have kept score exactly twice, and had a 151 and, more recently, a 128)

and I totally agree with the idea of consistency with equipment, so I am looking for the right ball for me. Once I find it, I intend to stay with it.

 

I've yet to drop the coin on new tour balls, but I have bought new NXT Tour S's, and Callaway Hex Chromes. I seem to like how the softer balls feel, but I haven't played the tour balls yet. For my round with the 128, I kept the same NXT S throughout the round, so I don't lose TOO many anymore.

 

In short, although cost is a consideration for me, it's not prohibitive. I will buy the best balls for my game, once I decide on them. I also do agree that I definitely lose more shots on and around the greens (who doesn't, eh?!), so that part makes sense to me. 

 

However, I also hit most drives into the fairway with the softer balls, and, I think I get more distance than with a lot of the harder balls I find on the course. I'm not sure I could necessarily do that as well with the higher spin tour balls.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

post #5 of 49

I like the spin control of both Bridgestone RX and Callaway HEX Chrome. I find ProV's sometime ballon on me -- especially in the wind. The best overall ball for me now seems to be the Chrome. I also am hooked on yellow.

post #6 of 49
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I liked the Chromes in general for the 9 holes I have played so far with them. I got the white. I know lots of people like yellow. I want to give them a shot. (Easier to see!) c2_beer.gif

 

I'm also interested still to know what if any independent testing proves regarding compression vs. swing speed = distance. i.e. What does the science say?

 

I know there are two camps on this one as far as what people believe: 

 

1) It matters a good deal, and you have to match your swing speed to the compression of your ball in order to maximize distance, and reduce spin off the tee. (More important for us slow/crooked hitters, maybe? b2_tongue.gif)

 

2) It doesn't matter all that much, and the tour balls are what you want to be playing for the spin and short game control advantages.

 

It seems like those who agree with #1 have lower swing speed, and are more interested in staying straight and long off the tee, while those who agree with #2 seem to have higher swing speed, and/or primarily value the short game control of balls that stop/spin better on the greens.

 

Fair?

 

Thanks for all the thoughts on this!

post #7 of 49
Ive heard good things about the hex chrome and from all reports it's good on the green. Try a few sleeves see what you like best and stick to it.

As I said for me I love the feel of the tour balls

At the end of the day both titleist and srixon etc are there to sell balls they just have different views on marketing them. Srixon have used the q star ads to try and convince us to play the non tour q star. I like the q star but it's no prov1 or penta. I prefer both over the q star.
post #8 of 49

Distance might not change between tour balls and the others, but spin numbers do by 300+rpm with the driver.  That is what most of the multilayer stuff is about and might be the difference between your ball being found and being lost in the woods.  I haven't noticed much compression feel difference between tour and normal balls. Now ladies or junior balls on the other hand you can feel the difference. Low compression balls definitely don't fly as well if you can overpower them. Ladies balls I could hit ok but the junior ones lost a good chunk of yardage.

 

I have gone through my game and as a mid/high handicap, I am an equal opportunity shot waster. For every drive out of bounds, I have a 3 putt. For every missed approach shot, I blade a chip.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarky75 View Post

I asked this same question. Srixon and Bridgestone tell you playing a tour ball hurts your game. But titleist tell you fitting a ball to swing speed is a myth and that you should play a tour ball. I have tested Bridgestone e6 and srixon q star Nike pd soft callaway diablo tour soft feel etc. to be honest my play testing agrees with titleist. I have been playing prov1x and the penta tp5 I score better with the tour balls and they feel nicer off the club and especially putter
I'm a 15 hc and I can tell you like most amateurs most of my wasted shots are wedge shot chip shot and putting these are what kill your score you have a bad green side game you won't break 100. If you hit a driver offline you can recover you only hit 18 drives maybe say 14 considering par 3. Where are most of your shots around the green. For me this is where the tour balls excel much better green side and for me a great feel off the putter the roll and feel is brilliant.
As tiger woods once said its no accident my father taught me greens first then to the long irons and driver. Why? Because most of your game is around the green. Keep track next time you play of how many wasted shots you have on the green.
Will playing a prov1 make you the next tiger woods probably not but for me I'll play the tour balls from now on because for me they work on the greens and that to me is what matters. If I hit a cheap or mid tier ball now they feel like rocks and I dont enjoy it. Find what works for you and stick to 1 ball all the trying new balls swapping and changing is no good. Stick to one ball. My firm belief is play the best ball you can afford. For me that's the titleist prov1x.
post #9 of 49
Thread Starter 

I'm 100% down with doing what works. I just wonder what science/math says about why it may or may not work for one player or another. You know?

 

I won't change because the numbers say  I'm 'supposed' to do one thing or another. Nor will I necessarily stay trapped because they say I'm not 'supposed' to. 

 

I'm just a curious guy I guess. f1_cool.gif I wonder why I would be more likely to go one way or the other.

 

I suppose if somebody comes up with a ball that does it all, that one will be the best seller ever! 

post #10 of 49
Yeah I'd like to know the science too. Titleist say one thing on their web page re compression it's quite a good read I'm sure you have read that too. Bridgestone and srixon have opposing views have not seen anything from the factually on their web pages

At the end of the day who really knows what's what. Clever marketing most of the time which is why most here say play what feels and works right for you. That's most important I don't think we will ever get a definitive answer.
post #11 of 49

For years Titleist has been trying to tell people that the Pro V1 is the right ball for everyone.  This, "compression doesnt matter" campaign is just their latest attempt at trying to get hacks to play a more expensive ball.

post #12 of 49

In the past 2 seasons I have tried - Titleist Pro-v1 and Pro-v1x, NXT Tour, Callaway I(s) & I(z), Bridgestone E6 & E7 and Srixon Q-star. What I settled on, after trying them on a whim, are the Wilson Staff Fifty Elite's. 50 Compression balls which seem to produce a little extra distance for me. I like how they drop and stop (rather than spin back greatly) on full shots and I like the feel off the putter. YMMV.

 

P.S. As a bonus they are at about a buck a ball new but that was not a deciding factor in my decision to play them.

post #13 of 49

For what it is worth, I have been playing the PRO V1x pre-owned balls from Walmart. They work great. Last week I found an NXT Tour and decided to play it. If felt like the compression was softer and it had a lower sound to it when I hit it BUT it flew farther and straighter than the PRO V1x I have been playing with my driver. So in my opinion, I think compression DOES matter with driving distance. 

post #14 of 49
The pictures on the Titleist web site seem to show similar compression for all swing speeds. But i wonder if a very small compression difference (unlikely) or if a softer ball gives more compression and distance for mishits than a harder ball
post #15 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricepr View Post

The pictures on the Titleist web site seem to show similar compression for all swing speeds. But i wonder if a very small compression difference (unlikely) or if a softer ball gives more compression and distance for mishits than a harder ball


Its called, "marketing".

post #16 of 49
think about it...the compression isn't going to affect you because if a pro swings one of his irons at 90mph, and you swing your driver at 90mph...do you think the ball isn't going to compress for you since you aren't a pro?  90mph is 90mph no matter who's making the club travel that fast. 
 
 
If compression matters..are the LPGA players secretly being given lower compression balls?  Simple truth is that compression isn't a big factor in golf ball performance...Spin and control are.
post #17 of 49

This new marketing is definitely inconsistent with why they came out with the NXT-Tour S.  The "S" version of the NXT-Tour was supposed to be for players who preferred or needed a softer compression.  It is very interesting how they are claiming something to the contrary now, but I have a guess as to their angle.

 

Per SAGolfLuvr's comment on getting better results, it's likely does not have anything to do with compression (but it still could).  It's likely due to the spin.  If Golfer #1 has a driver swing speed of 105mph and has a slight fade or draw on the ball, he's probably looking at roughly 260 yard carry.  Take Golfer #2, with a driver swing speed of 105mph but has a major slice going on, there's no way he's going to carry the ball 260 (no matter where he aims) as the ball would have to travel much further to reach the same landing point.  So it makes perfect sense why people would get better results based on the spin (or dimple design) of the ball... (e.g. NXT-Tour flying straighter and farther then the Pro-V1).

 

However, compression can still matter for some people.  Anyone remember kickball from elementary school (or actually adult leagues now)?  Ever kick a kickball without enough air in it?  It actually goes a little farther if you apply a little less force to it.  Ever kick a kickball with too much air in it?  It doesn't go very far unless you're able to apply enough force to it.  In order for a ball (golf, kickball, soccer, football, tennis ball) to move, it needs a force applied to it.  There is an optimum force depending on compression of the ball.  If you have a swing speed of 95mph, you may not really notice too much difference, other than the feel.  But take someone who has a swing speed of 70mph, and I would bet a bit of money they will hit a lower compression ball farther than a tour ball (all other things constant).

 

So maybe what Titleist is getting at is if you're in the category that you don't notice a huge difference in the distance and spin is not an issue, then yes, you're probably better off with a scoring ball to save strokes around the green.  But, there is a reason they make balls for people with lower swing speeds and it is because compression can matter.  It's similar to a child's tennis racquet not being strung as tight and using lower compression balls... because they can't apply the necessary force to the ball.

 

I imagine I could be totally wrong on all of this, but it certainly makes logical sense when I reminisce about what I learned in physics way back in high school.

 

It would be interesting to see the actual results of their test to know which group they are basing their new marketing on.

post #18 of 49

I can only speak from personal experience but I have played the ProV1, ProV1X and last years NXT Tour on the same course and same holes this year.  What I find it there is very little difference in distance for me between any of the models.  But, there is a greater difference in spin for irons and wedges and ball flight.  There is a 150 yard par 3 at this course and I have used all three balls there with a 7-iron or 8-iron depending on conditions.  The NXT Tour would go the 150 yards in a mid height flight, bounce and roll out 20 feet.  The ProV1X would go the 150, bounce and check up after a small roll out of 5 feet.  The ProV1 will seem to rise a bit higher, bounce and check up immediately.  I like the last the best obviously.

 

ProV1 seems a bit more durable on the surface.  Small scuffs don't seem to affect flight at all.  ProV1X scuffs a bit easier I think.  NXT Tour (2011) is pretty durable too but not as good as the ProV1.  Unless the ball is really roughed up, I will keep using it.

 

For driver and long irons, I don't see much of an difference is accuracy.  Most mid Handicap players like me seem to fear too much spin on the driver.  Fairways are important.  But so is getting on the green.  Again, I am not the most accurate with the driver off the tee (my biggest weakness), but it is not worse with the ProV1.

 

I would recommend that if you lose a lot of balls, don't lay the ProV1 balls and stick with the NXT Tour S (2012) if you like the softer feel.  If you don't lose many, buy a sleeve of the ProV1 and see if you like it.

 

BTW, most Titliest balls (ProV1, etc) are made in Fairhaven, MA, USA.  Not sure if anyone else makes theirs in the US anymore.  It is important to me for what it is worth.

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