Optimal Trackman numbers for Push draw

**poser** · March 2, 2013

So I haven't really played golf but, two times in the last 3 months and once was good and the other was pretty bad. I've always struggled with getting under and hitting it fat. Our club got the trackman in so yesterday I took a lesson and finally got all my numbers. I was 5 degrees out to the right and around -2 attack angle. He wanted to get my number zeroed out on the the club path and face to be 2 open to target to hit the normal push draw pattern.

Trying to get my path more to the left I hit huge pull hooks cause the face was too shut but, worked on that till I got it down then we worked on face. Contact was way better and didn't catch any fat once we change the path but, face has been the hard issue for me still tend to get it to shut and hit pull hooks. Also my attack angle was around -4 to -5. Do these seem like the numbers I should be going for or can I play with a path out to the right? Only thing that scares me with the path out to the right is the fat shots.

Whats the PGA average for irons?

This was all with my 7 iron also

***iacas*** · March 2, 2013

With a 7-iron? Some basic simple numbers assuming center contact and all that jazz.

Swing Direction (HSP): 0

AoA: -4

Club path: ~2.4

Face: 0.86

Don't want to play with tolerances that tight?

Swing Direction (HSP): 2

AoA: -4 (keeping that the same)

Club path: ~4.4

Face: 1.6

For a 6I - 9I you need about 2.8 path:face ratio for the ball to curve back to the target. More than that for wedges, 2:1 for 3I-5I, and 1.5 or so for driver/3W.

**14ledo81** · March 2, 2013

With a 7-iron? Some basic simple numbers assuming center contact and all that jazz. Swing Direction (HSP): 0 AoA: -4 Club path: ~2.4 Face: 0.86 :-) Don't want to play with tolerances that tight? Swing Direction (HSP): 2 AoA: -4 (keeping that the same) Club path: ~4.4 Face: 1.6 For a 6I - 9I you need about 2.8 path:face ratio for the ball to curve back to the target. More than that for wedges, 2:1 for 3I-5I, and 1.5 or so for driver/3W.

Interesting. So do you manipulate that ratio with path or face changes?

**mvmac** · March 2, 2013

Originally Posted by iacas

With a 7-iron? Some basic simple numbers assuming center contact and all that jazz.

Swing Direction (HSP): 0

AoA: -4

Club path: ~2.4

Face: 0.86

Don't want to play with tolerances that tight?

Swing Direction (HSP): 2

AoA: -4 (keeping that the same)

Club path: ~4.4

Face: 1.6

For a 6I - 9I you need about 2.8 path:face ratio for the ball to curve back to the target. More than that for wedges, 2:1 for 3I-5I, and 1.5 or so for driver/3W.

Yeah you need to have a face "buffer", in case you don't have the skills to return the face to .86 aimed right, every time.

**poser** · March 2, 2013

Thanks guys. SO just so I get this right you say it would be better to be 2 to the right instead of zero'ed out ? What about the fat shots could that be from the path being to far out to the right? I've always driven the ball well but, had poor iron play. When I moved the path more left my irons were more solid but, driver was worse.

***iacas*** · March 2, 2013

Originally Posted by poser

Thanks guys. SO just so I get this right you say it would be better to be 2 to the right instead of zero'ed out ? What about the fat shots could that be from the path being to far out to the right? I've always driven the ball well but, had poor iron play. When I moved the path more left my irons were more solid but, driver was worse.

I just shifted the HSP to keep the AoA the same (-4 is good for a 7I) but have a swing more to the right so you could push the ball a bit more and make every shot draw. With a path only 2.4 degrees right (PGA Tour level, and even then probably not as many as you might think) it wouldn't take much to get a shot that basically went straight right or even faded a little 2.5 - 0.86 is a face error of 1.64°. Good luck! :D

Fat shots? When you swing left more (RHG), you tend to move the low point forward simply due to the way you're built. When you swing to the right more you tend to shift low point farther back. You have a choice - do what I'll say below (two swings) OR figure out why your iron swing tends to fat the ball (Keys #1 - #3 - and judging from the videos in your My Swing thread it's likely a #3 issue, since the numbers you shared in the first post don't indicate a poor #4).

I don't think both shots are hit with one swing. I think the fact that the ball is in the air gives you room to do things differently with the driver than with balls hit from the ground. You can have two swings.

There are a lot of PGA Tour players who play one shape (and one swing) with their drivers and a different shape (and a slightly different swing - we're not talking about wholesale changes here) with their irons.

**mvmac** · March 2, 2013

Originally Posted by poser

Thanks guys. SO just so I get this right you say it would be better to be 2 to the right instead of zero'ed out ? What about the fat shots could that be from the path being to far out to the right? I've always driven the ball well but, had poor iron play. When I moved the path more left my irons were more solid but, driver was worse.

Fat shots with the path too far right is too much early extension which can move the head and low point back on the downswing. The "fix" should definitely not be so start swinging left, you'd just hit low cuts. When players early extend they tend to lift the right heel off the ground, plantar flex, and have the pressure go to the heel of the left foot. So in general a good feel would be more pressure towards the toes of your left foot, really "crush" that left foot into the ground. This pressure feel will keep the hips slanted longer into the downswing, which will keep the head more steady. For you Poser, just depends how you Key#1 and 2 are doing. Just from seeing your swing I remember you have a tendency for some EE.

Like Erik said, with you it's probably a Key#3 issue, this might be a good video to check out

***iacas*** · March 2, 2013

Originally Posted by mvmac

Fat shots with the path too far right

To be clear, Mike's answering generally. A path of 5 is not "too far right" for someone who wants to play a push-draw, especially with any sort of negative AoA.

**mvmac** · March 2, 2013

Originally Posted by iacas

To be clear, Mike's answering generally. A path of 5 is not "too far right" for someone who wants to play a push-draw, especially with any sort of negative AoA.

Yes thanks Erik and agree if we have an AoA of 3-4 then a 5 path is pretty good.

**poser** · March 2, 2013

Awesome thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it.

**colin007** · March 2, 2013

Seriously, this forum is such a great source of information on the swing. I don't know of another site that has the information contained on this website.

**poser** · March 3, 2013

Your numbers from first swing (7 iron):

SD: +5 degrees

Angle of attack: -1.9

Club path: +7

Face angle: -1 to -3 ish

After changes swing (7 iron)

Swing direction: 0-1 degrees

Angle of attack: -4.2

Club path: +3 ish

Face angle: +1.5ish

Found the numbers I had when starting and when ending

***iacas*** · March 3, 2013

After changes swing (7 iron) Swing direction: 0-1 degrees Angle of attack: -4.2 Club path: +3 ish Face angle: +1.5ish Found the numbers I had when starting and when ending

So... Pretty much perfect.

**mvmac** · March 3, 2013

Originally Posted by poser

After changes swing (7 iron)

Swing direction: 0-1 degrees

Angle of attack: -4.2

Club path: +3 ish

Face angle: +1.5ish

The guy in your avatar pic can't do that

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Optimal Trackman numbers for Push draw

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