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Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

post #1 of 32
10/9/07 at 5:46am
Thread Starter 
I was practicing on the range today and hit some balls at the end of my session allowing my right hip (right handed golfer) to more fully turn instead of restricting them.

I usually try to somewhat restirct my hip turn to allow more of a coil between my shoulder turn and hip turn.

When I allowed my hips to more fully turn I had more of a weight shift and hit the ball a lot further and seemed more consistant. My shoulders also turned a little more than usual. However toward the end of my practice sessions, I usually get in a groove and can hit everything pretty consistently regardless of my set up (within reason of course).

Anyone have any thoughts on how much of a hip turn one should make, and how much you should restrict your hip turn versus your shoulder turn?
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post #2 of 32
10/9/07 at 1:53pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

It is precisly the tension created by a full shoulder turn in the upper body, against a restricted hip turn in the lower body, that generates power. If I had to put it into numbers, imagine a full 90° hip turn has your belt buckle facing away from the target. Go half that, then half that again, for about a 20°hip turn.

In contrast, the shoulder turn should be as full as possible (depending on whether you're hitting a full shot or not). Like winding a spring: hold one end, twist the other, and the power comes from simply letting them go.
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post #3 of 32
10/9/07 at 2:23pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

I think the word "restricting" in golf is the death of the golf swing. This means undo tension in the restricted area. Golf is very dynamic and free flowing, and should be as tension-free as possible.

Torque is definitely needed in your core to hit longer shots. This is created by a minimal amount of hip rotation, and a maximum amount of upper body rotation.

Physical limitations in both strength and flexibility will directly affect your ability to create this "x-factor".

Just my "two-cents" worth
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post #4 of 32
10/9/07 at 11:34pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
It is precisly the tension created by a full shoulder turn in the upper body, against a restricted hip turn in the lower body, that generates power. If I had to put it into numbers, imagine a full 90° hip turn has your belt buckle facing away from the target. Go half that, then half that again, for about a 20°hip turn.

In contrast, the shoulder turn should be as full as possible (depending on whether you're hitting a full shot or not). Like winding a spring: hold one end, twist the other, and the power comes from simply letting them go.
Do you think more than a 20 deg hip turn is too much?
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post #5 of 32
10/11/07 at 2:56am

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Lots of conflicting advice around as far as these issues go. At the last lesson I went to they hooked me up to a device that measured shoulder turn, as well as hip turn. At the top I had a hip turn of about 23 degrees and shoulder turn between 92 and 97, which seems to match up with some of the advice here. The pro instead was telling me to turn my hips more, to get about 40 degrees of rotation in the hips and keep the shoulders at the 95 or so range. I guess it depends who you go to and what theories they believe in.
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post #6 of 32
10/11/07 at 11:46pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Ideally, that 90 and 20 is pretty close. In a good golf swing, a lot of power comes from the release of the tension from the body's coil. i.e. big shoulder turn, minimal hip turn. however, players with limited flexibility will benefit from more hip turn in order to get more shoulder turn. otherwise they will just be swinging their hands and arms.

If you over-rotate, try turning your front toe toward your target more (as opposed to being perpendicular to your target line). This will restrict your turn.

If you need more turn, square your front foot and rotate your back foot out a little bit.
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post #7 of 32
10/12/07 at 2:29pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

You're talking about X Factor theory, right? If I recall correctly, the average hip turn on tour was 45 degrees and shoulder turn about 90 degrees. However, it should be noted that there was some misintepretation of this theory by many people in the golfing community...
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post #8 of 32
10/12/07 at 6:22pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Who is the teacher in this video? I found his explanation of the hip turn in the golf swing to be exceptional.
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post #9 of 32
10/12/07 at 6:29pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Shawn Clement, http://www.shawnclementgolf.com/ I think he's one of the very few golf instructors (that I've come across) who I've found to be both charismatic and informative at the same time.
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post #10 of 32
10/24/10 at 3:45pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Just my experience with this and not meant in anyway as coaching.I began thinking about how to generate power and thought of other athletes in other sports.Two people came to mind Andre Agassi and Bruce Lee.These men were not overly big men but were known for short explosive movements.They hit hard in their respective disciplines.

I forever have been trying to turn to a shall we say correct length of backswing.Then I thought of the two gents mentioned above and took too finding out my range of flexibility and to see if a very short backswing hurt my length.Well speed is the key,and when does length of swing relate to the speed of the club.Basically I would turn until my shoulders would not turn anymore,just until the tightness could be felt.I'm on plane so all I have to do is rotate through all the way left.

The result is 10-15 yards gain on a well struck iron.I don't restrict my hips just turn my shoulders and bang there's all the coil needed.I personally believe amateur golfers like me can waste a lot of energy turning and trying to create more turn to get more distance.Impact is where the speed needs to peak.I mean you can work on your seperation with exercises to help the shoulders turn further away from the hip turn.

However a more simple turn holds all my mechanics together much better and my ballflight is now much evenly dispersed.
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post #11 of 32
10/24/10 at 4:17pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

The pro I talked with identified too much hip turn as a "fix this first" kind of problem with my swing...
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post #12 of 32
10/24/10 at 5:21pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

I'd be careful with limiting hip turn. I once thought that restricting hip turn simplified the swing and increased torque/power/magical x factors. However, Im finding that turning your shoulders and hips fully (if done correctly on the correct planes/angles) encourages deeper hands and a better downswing plane into the ball.
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post #13 of 32
10/24/10 at 7:52pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Originally Posted by Fried Egg View Post

If you need more turn, square your front foot and rotate your back foot out a little bit.
Was given this to work on last week...has allowed me to make a better shoulder turn as well.
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post #14 of 32
10/24/10 at 8:02pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

I don't limit or restrict my hip turn,I turn until the hips and shoulders are stretched against each other,that's the end of the backswing.If I fire from there then it's almost impossible to screw up my shot.Based on my actual body and swing type and having experimented with various approaches this is a no brainer for me.To spend anymore time trying to achieve extra distance at the sacrifice of accuracy just go back that little bit further makes no sense.

I have limited time playing golf,functionality,repeatability,accuracy are high on my list.
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post #15 of 32
10/24/10 at 9:20pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

I never think about my hips. I do think about making a good shoulder turn by pushing with my lead shoulder. My hips turn as they are pulled by my shoulders. I have stopped at the top and checked my hips. They are turned about 1/2 as much as my shoulders.
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post #16 of 32
10/24/10 at 10:01pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

Originally Posted by JackLee View Post
I never think about my hips. I do think about making a good shoulder turn by pushing with my lead shoulder. My hips turn as they are pulled by my shoulders. I have stopped at the top and checked my hips. They are turned about 1/2 as much as my shoulders.
I don't know that you should worry about hip turn as much as starting the return swing with a lateral motion and if your right foot is slightly toed out to promote hip turn, you should finish with your belt buckle pointing at the target. This should just flow at some point. A kind of rough synopsis, there is more to it to hit well of course.
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post #17 of 32
10/25/10 at 9:36pm

Re: Hip Turn vs Shoulder Turn

See this video from Brady Riggs on hip turn and creating space to swing. This has helped me tremendously. In my case rotating my hips freely created the room I needed to swing from the inside and generate way more power. I am hitting my 8 iron 160 with not much effort and my hips rotate much faster and more completely. At last I am getting to my left side with ease. I am 63 this year.

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post #18 of 32
12/21/10 at 3:02pm

A flexed right knee ensures that one will not turn his/her hips too much in the back-swing.  The right leg functions as a brace.  In addition, one must avoid straightening the right leg on the back-swing which can lead to a reverse pivot.  Here are a few benefits from using your right leg properly:
 

  1. Better connected to the ground.
  2. Shoulder turn approximately 90 degrees.
  3. Tighter coil.
  4. Hips clear quicker.
  5. More distance!
     

Edited by Kujan - 12/21/10 at 3:52pm
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