Who Pushes Off With Their Trail Leg?

[hoselpalooza]

Just now, chspeed said:

I did. JT gets almost all his pressure to the front leg very early. By the time extends the right leg, it only has a bit of his body pressure on it.

ok, so you must have noticed that he pushed off his trail foot during transition and caused the fabric to move backwards, right? and this would explain how he got almost all his pressure to the front leg.

if he just fell onto his front leg to get the pressure there the fabric would never have been pushed backwards. does this make sense?

[chspeed]

5 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

if he just fell onto his front leg to get the pressure there the fabric would never have been pushed backwards. does this make sense?

I'm not sure what you're referring too about fabric. But if you look at seconds 25 & 26 in video, that's transition. All his weight goes forward, but the right leg gains flex and the right foot comes off the ground. That's not pushing.

The only time I see extending the right leg is through impact, but that's all pushing on the left leg not the right one. He's just doing this so fast and spinning that the right leg extends too. As you can see from the force plates right then, there is very little measurable pressure in the right leg then at all.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed

[hoselpalooza]

1 minute ago, chspeed said:

I'm not sure what you're referring too about fabric. But if you look at seconds 25 & 26 in video, that's transition. All his weight goes forward, but the right leg gains flex and the right foot comes off the ground. That's not pushing.

The only time I see extending the right leg is through impact, but that's all pushing on the left leg not the right one. He's just doing this so fast and spinning that the right leg extends too. As you can see from the force plates right then, there is no measurable pressure in the right leg then at all.

 

the fabric on the surface of the boditrak mat just behind his trail foot.

look at how it bunches up just before he begins the downswing. this is because he is pushing off with his trail foot. see what i'm talking about now?

if you put something slippery under his trail foot it would slip out just as he begins the downswing. this is because he's putting pressure there, he's not falling forward.

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

here's a video of JT pushing off with the trail foot. pay careful attention to the fabric on the boditrak mat at 25 seconds. he pushes off with his trail foot to shift pressure to the lead foot, causing the fabric to move backwards. no push off would mean no fabric movement there.

also looks like he pushes off pretty hard with the trail toe just before impact. 

 

It’s clear to me now you don’t know how to read a pressure trace.

JT is doing no such thing.

[chspeed]

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

the fabric on the surface of the boditrak mat just behind his trail foot.

look at how it bunches up just before he begins the downswing. this is because he is pushing off with his trail foot. see what i'm talking about now?

He's shifting pressure to the back foot. That's what you're seeing.

Then in transition, he shifts it over to his front foot while bending his right leg and getting it off the ground. That's not pushing.

After getting it to 100% on the left leg at impact, then he falls back a bit to his right.

 

8 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

if you put something slippery under his trail foot it would slip out just as he begins the downswing. this is because he's putting pressure there, he's not falling forward.

That's because he is changing direction, not because he's "pushing off". Remember physics, for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. moving pressure to your left side will cause an equal force in the other direction, which would cause him to slip.

[Grizvok]

19 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

ok, so you must have noticed that he pushed off his trail foot during transition and caused the fabric to move backwards, right? and this would explain how he got almost all his pressure to the front leg.

if he just fell onto his front leg to get the pressure there the fabric would never have been pushed backwards. does this make sense?

You are trying to explain the physics of a golf swing by using analysis of his pant fabric?

[iacas]

82% forward.

[hoselpalooza]

1 minute ago, chspeed said:

He's shifting pressure to the back foot. That's what you're seeing.

Then in transition, he shifts it over to his front foot while bending his right leg and getting it off the ground. That's not pushing.

After getting it to 100% on the left leg at impact, then he falls back a bit to his right.

 

he's at the top of his backswing and has already loaded into his right side. what you're seeing is a subtle push off with the trail foot to get his pressure to the right side.

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

It’s clear to me now you don’t know how to read a pressure trace.

JT is doing no such thing.

i can read a pressure trace just fine. can you explain how JT shifts his pressure? he certainly doesn't fall.

[chspeed]

@hoselpalooza, if you need more proof, even though you have it from the biggest experts in the golf swing. Here's more.

Runners do not push off the ground but fall forwards via a gravitational torque. - PubMed - NCBI

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Sports Biomech. 2007 Sep;6(3):434-52.

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed

[iacas]

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

I can read a pressure trace just fine.

You can’t. I’m done for now.

[hoselpalooza]

6 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

You are trying to explain the physics of a golf swing by using analysis of his pant fabric?

are you serious? read the comment again. he pushes the fabric on the boditrak mat backwards with his trail foot just before beginning the downswing.

[chspeed]

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

i can read a pressure trace just fine. can you explain how JT shifts his pressure? he certainly doesn't fall.

Read that article. They explain it.

You can rest assured that what you're thinking isn't crazy. Everyone thought that people pushed off. But it's been disproved.

[hoselpalooza]

Just now, chspeed said:

Read that article. They explain it.

You can rest assured that what you're thinking isn't crazy. Everyone thought that people pushed off. But it's been disproved.

thanks for sharing, but how is that article relevant to the golf swing or throwing a baseball?

[chspeed]

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

thanks for sharing, but how is that article relevant to the golf swing or throwing a baseball?

Because just like in running and pitching, gravity is the same force that JT uses to get his pressure forward.

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed

[hoselpalooza]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

82% forward.

yeah, that's never been in debate. the question is HOW DOES HE GET OFF HIS RIGHT SIDE?

i've already pointed out that he pushes the fabric on the boditrak mat backwards (because he's pushing off with his trail foot) and nobody can provide an alternative.

[chspeed]

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

i've already pointed out that he pushes the fabric on the boditrak mat backwards (because he's pushing off with his trail foot) and nobody can provide an alternative. 

I did. Getting his pressure forward caused a reaction in the opposite direction. He didn't push it.

Please stop trying to use common sense to explain this. It doesn't work. Common sense is wrong in this case. See the data.

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed

[hoselpalooza]

2 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Because just like in running and pitching, gravity is the same force that JT uses to get his pressure forward.

i never said gravity wasn't used during the golf swing or when throwing a baseball. in fact i mentioned the push from a baseball mound happens after a slight fall forward. 

2 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I did. Getting his pressure forward caused a reaction in the opposite direction. He didn't push it.

i disagree. looking at the trace and the physical mat you can clearly see the fabric start to get pushed backwards before he completely gets off his right side. 

still waiting for someone to specify how he gets off his right side. here's the closest i've found.

Quote

The way I do that is to get off my right heel as fast as I can while pushing hard against the ground with my left foot and turning my hips open.

Justin Thomas: Ground Force - Australian Golf Digest

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Justin Thomas shows you how to carry a driver twice your weight.

i have a really hard time believing he gets off of his right heel as fast as he can without any pushing. 

[iacas]

It’s been explained several times in other topics. Just because someone hasn’t posted in this thread in the last 15 minutes doesn’t mean "nobody has told you." Look it up for yourself.

When you look at a pressure mat reading, pushing would spike the pressure under that foot. (Other things can do it too, like the arms coming down, which moves them from more centered to more rightward, hence the "butt cleft" seen in Grant Waite's traces, for example.) Justin Thomas being 82/18 (front/trail) is NOT an indication that he's "pushed off" with his right foot at all.

The short version: you fall a little bit and your core muscles bump your hips forward a little. Stand there with your hands on your hips and just push your left hip out - you use your core muscles to do so, you don't push off with your right leg. From there the left leg extends which really spikes the pressure/GRF under the left foot.