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hoselpalooza

My Swing (hoselpalooza)

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I've been Playing Golf for: played for a few years then took a 10-year hiatus. just getting back into it. 
My current handicap index or average score is: TBD -- hope to get one this year and enter tournaments with friends.
My typical ball flight is: high, tight draw
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: creating more separation is current priority. clearing out the lower half makes it super easy to pull. 

misc. details: i'm grateful for this community. have worked with pros in the past (and may continue) and really want to own my swing now. am happy with progress and direction and almost always open to feedback. 


first video: 

notes: 7i, caddie view; lot of things i like but see room for improvement with turn (lots of layers -- it was snowing), separation (current priority), release (could be later), and perhaps a wider stance. agree? disagree? anything else worth looking into? cheers! 👍

 

Edited by iacas
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8 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

I've been Playing Golf for: played for a few years then took a 10-year hiatus. just getting back into it. 
My current handicap index or average score is: TBD -- hope to get one this year and enter tournaments with friends.
My typical ball flight is: high, tight draw
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: creating more separation is current priority. clearing out the lower half makes it super easy to pull. 

misc. details: i'm grateful for this community. have worked with pros in the past (and may continue) and really want to own my swing now. am happy with progress and direction and almost always open to feedback. 


first video: 

notes: 7i, caddie view; lot of things i like but see room for improvement with turn (lots of layers -- it was snowing), separation (current priority), release (could be later), and perhaps a wider stance. agree? disagree? anything else worth looking into? cheers! 👍

 

 

Check out the Key 1 videos on Steady Head. Your head moves back a bit on your backswing. Also, post a down the line view when you have a chance.

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7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Check out the Key 1 videos on Steady Head. Your head moves back a bit on your backswing. Also, post a down the line view when you have a chance.

@boogielicious, thanks for your comment. is there something specific about my head movement or is this a general recommendation? this is a controversial topic. i see a lot of successful tour pros with varying degrees of head movement during the backswing.

plan to upload a DTL video next week. 👍

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14 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

@boogielicious, thanks for your comment. is there something specific about my head movement or is this a general recommendation? this is a controversial topic. i see a lot of successful tour pros with varying degrees of head movement during the backswing.

plan to upload a DTL video next week. 👍

Just a general observation. Relatively steady head is the first key in the 5 Simple Keys.

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On 3/11/2019 at 3:35 AM, boogielicious said:

Just a general observation. Relatively steady head is the first key in the 5 Simple Keys.

Further on this @hoselpalooza, you need to finish your back swing.  With the head sliding back a bit, you are not getting your hips or chest rotated enough. Place an alignment stick or long club on the inside of your elbows, near your chest and take back swings watching the stick go 90 degrees from set up.

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7 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Further on this @hoselpalooza, you need to finish your back swing.  With the head sliding back a bit, you are not getting your hips or chest rotated enough. Place an alignment stick or long club on the inside of your elbows, near your chest and take back swings watching the stick go 90 degrees from set up.

@phillyk, thanks for your feedback. i have a hunch removing layers is the simple fix for increasing turn; it was literally freezing outside. 🙂

looking back at the video notes i could have explicitly said the lack of turn was due to bundling up and not mechanics. apologies -- it wasn't clear. 

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made some changes and have a few DTL videos to share.

  • noticed inconsistent ball position was causing some previously unexplained mishits. using a couple of alignment rods to fix this.
  • widened stance and feeling more centered foot pressure. just feels more solid.
  • keeping chin higher at address and throughout backswing. much easier to get a full turn and had the unintended consequence (along with wider stance) of reducing lateral head movement when i load up (à la henrik stenson).
  • using a neutral grip now. most frequent miss has turned into a pull. neutral grip helps prevent pull hooks.

first video is a drill (7-iron) i'm using to improve tempo and separation. it's the drill i love to hate: challenging and significantly reduces power but very helpful. this particular swing is acceptable but i want to try to get more separation. 1) i need better core strength and to do more pelvic exercises. and 2) i need to trust the top half will follow the bottom half. feedback or questions?

second video is about 80% tempo with a p-wedge. there's a clear difference between this and the drill swing. i hit this ball dead straight but it could've easily been a 10-yard pull if my timing was slightly off. i want to fix this so i don't rely on timing and i think that starts with a more consistent path on the backswing (like in the drill) and getting better separation so i don't jump at the ball from the top before sliding/turning with the lower half. feedback or questions?

third video is an example of how much more drastic this swing flaw looks with longer irons. here i'm hitting a 16.5* driving iron. saved the shot with good timing and roasted a baby pull fade but it could have turned out badly. i want this club to be my fairway finder. have made solid progress in the last few weeks but still have a bit of work to do before i'm comfortable bagging it. feedback or questions?

 

Edited by hoselpalooza
change wording

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2 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

keeping chin higher at address and throughout backswing. much easier to get a full turn and had the unintended consequence (along with wider stance) of reducing lateral head movement when i load up (à la henrik stenson).

You should check out this thread: 

It looks like you're staring at that lady's butt at address. You're definitely not seeing the ball from your central field of vision.

2 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

second video is about 80% tempo with a p-wedge. there's a clear difference between this and the drill swing. i hit this ball dead straight but it could've easily been a 10-yard pull if my timing was slightly off. i want to fix this so i don't rely on timing and i think that starts with a more consistent path on the backswing (like in the drill) and getting better separation so i don't jump at the ball from the top before sliding/turning with the lower half.

I don't quite understand what the drill is for. What are you trying to fix?

The main difference I see between the drill swing the other videos is your backswing in a real swing gets a little under plane and you tip over in transition and swing left. But it looks to me like you swing left in the drill swing, too.

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@billchao, thanks for your feedback.

Quote

You should check out this thread:

interesting read. off the top of your head do you know why scott made those changes? 

my current stance looks quite similar to old scott. the angle of the images is slightly off but from a posture perspective i like old scott better for me. i've worked a lot on identifying and eliminating unnecessary tension in the backswing. lifting the chin as been helpful with this, especially as i get closer to the top of the backswing.

nearly all of the golfers below look like they have a serious case of kyphosis. my spine hurts just looking at them! obviously those guys are great golfers, but is that really the best posture e.g. biomechanically? i'm a wannabe posture/spine health geek so knowing this is important to me.

Quote

It looks like you're staring at that lady's butt at address. You're definitely not seeing the ball from your central field of vision.

you're correct about the central field of vision. i just glance down at the ball at address, no straining or anything. and during the backswing the angle changes so the ball ends up in my central field of vision before starting the downswing. when i first made this change i wasn't sure if this would bother me. turns out it has zero impact.

Quote

I don't quite understand what the drill is for. What are you trying to fix?

this is a great drill! 😄 #1 thing i'm using it for is separation -- to get the lower half started first. i also use it to drill in a better backswing using a much slower tempo. these guys explain some of the pros much better but for me what it boils down to is this: it's very tough to hit the ball well when i cheat my swing.

Quote

The main difference I see between the drill swing the other videos is your backswing in a real swing gets a little under plane and you tip over in transition and swing left. But it looks to me like you swing left in the drill swing, too.

this sounds accurate. what do you mean by "tip over"? 

i knew i was swinging left it the other videos. it looks like my shoulders turn too soon and have to steepen the plane on the down swing to compensate. i can't tell if i'm swinging left in the drill or if it's just a steeper plane on the downswing that causes it to look that way. how can you tell?

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44 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your chin goes from up to down quite a bit during the swing. Better to just start it down.

Like @billchao said.

@iacas, thanks for your feedback. i've thought a bit about the pros and cons of chin up vs. down and i'm not sure why down would be better.

if i lower the chin while maintaining the same posture it's going to restrict the turn and increase tension. i just fixed this problem and don't want to go backwards. there could be some other ways around this though i can only think of one right now: move farther away from the ball, lean forward/decrease spine angle, move the hands farther away from the body, and perhaps shallow out the swing. those are a lot of changes to introduce just to lower the chin! 😅

that being said, i'm not opposed to trying new things i would just want to be sure i'm trying them for the right reasons. could you point me toward some info about pros and cons of chin up vs. chin down? or is there a specific reason you thing it would be better for me? i've searched and there seem to be more proponents of chin up. i haven't seen any good/unbiased comparisons of the two.

thanks!

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14 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

off the top of your head do you know why scott made those changes?

No. I'd guess for long-term back health.

15 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i've worked a lot on identifying and eliminating unnecessary tension in the backswing. lifting the chin as been helpful with this, especially as i get closer to the top of the backswing.

But your head tilts down through your entire backswing as @iacas pointed out. If anything, your neck muscles being active in tilting your head adds unnecessary tension.

17 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

nearly all of the golfers below look like they have a serious case of kyphosis. my spine hurts just looking at them! obviously those guys are great golfers, but is that really the best posture e.g. biomechanically? i'm a wannabe posture/spine health geek so knowing this is important to me.

There's a difference between good posture when standing/walking and good posture for the golf swing. There's lots of research and studies done by people far more qualified than me to explain it, but the simple answer is yes, it is.

21 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

you're correct about the central field of vision. i just glance down at the ball at address, no straining or anything. and during the backswing the angle changes so the ball ends up in my central field of vision before starting the downswing. when i first made this change i wasn't sure if this would bother me. turns out it has zero impact.

Or so you think. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I think it has to affect your hand-eye coordination on some small level whether you realize it or not. It might even affect actual mechanical movement in your swing.

But really since your head ends up there anyway at the top of the backswing, why start in a completely different place at address?

32 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

this is a great drill! 😄 #1 thing i'm using it for is separation -- to get the lower half started first. i also use it to drill in a better backswing using a much slower tempo. these guys explain some of the pros much better but for me what it boils down to is this: it's very tough to hit the ball well when i cheat my swing.

 

I know this video. It's been a while, though. You know Tiger did it for the complete opposite reason you're stating you do it, right? He needed to quiet his lower body action and the pause at the top allowed him to feel his arms coming down.

37 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

what do you mean by "tip over"? 

You go back under-plane and transition over-plane.

38 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i can't tell if i'm swinging left in the drill or if it's just a steeper plane on the downswing that causes it to look that way. how can you tell?

You are, I can see it better on my PC. The plane the club travels on in the downswing is above your hands. There's a frame just before impact where the clubhead is to the right of the ball and since you didn't shank it, it must have gone left to the hit the ball.

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p.s. the angle of my chin might look slightly exaggerated because i have a bit of fat underneath it right now. the video isn't great quality but if you look closely you'll see what i mean. 🙃

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@billchao, thanks for your detailed feedback. 

Quote

No. I'd guess for long-term back health.

 

looks like it was from switching instructors from butch harmon to brad malone. i didn't see anything about back health.

Quote

But your head tilts down through your entire backswing as @iacas pointed out. If anything, your neck muscles being active in tilting your head adds unnecessary tension.

is tilting the same as moving downward?

Quote

There's a difference between good posture when standing/walking and good posture for the golf swing. There's lots of research and studies done by people far more qualified than me to explain it, but the simple answer is yes, it is.

i've talked to doctors and specialists who've said a neutral spine position is best; this is what i'm aiming for. most of the guys in the article exhibit "c-posture". according to a quick web search it appears c-posture is not good for the body. 

Quote

Or so you think. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I think it has to affect your hand-eye coordination on some small level whether you realize it or not. It might even affect actual mechanical movement in your swing. But really since your head ends up there anyway at the top of the backswing, why start in a completely different place at address?

i suppose time will tell. if glancing down at the ball at address starts to bug me at some point or if i want to try moving further away from the ball then i'll have to change it. 

double-checking, are you talking about just moving the head down or is it something else?

Quote

I know this video. It's been a while, though. You know Tiger did it for the complete opposite reason you're stating you do it, right?

ha! the irony about what he was working on wasn't lost on me the first time i saw it. 😅 but i think the point of the drill isn't to do any one thing mechanically -- it's more like a litmus test for the swing. if tiger got too quick with the lower half it would be difficult to still hit the ball well. same thing for me if i get too quick with the top half.

also, thanks for the clarification about what you saw in the videos. you're spot on about tipping over. that's one of the things i'm trying to fix by getting better separation. 

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hey @iacas& @billchao -- just in case, were you guys also looking at the visor or only my (double) chin and eyes? the visor is tilted up a fair amount which could be difficult to notice, and might make it appear like my eye level is much higher, if that makes sense. (i have a big-ish forehead and pulled down visors don't flatter my hairline ;) 

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14 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

is tilting the same as moving downward?

No necessarily. You can squat and move your head downwards without doing anything to it. Tilting your head as I phrased it means you're bending your neck. Your neck is in flexion at address and progressively goes into extension all the way at the top of the backswing when you could just be in that slightly extended state at address to begin with.

14 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

i've talked to doctors and specialists who've said a neutral spine position is best; this is what i'm aiming for. most of the guys in the article exhibit "c-posture". according to a quick web search it appears c-posture is not good for the body.

Like I said, a neutral spine when standing straight up and when slightly bent over are two different things. The "athletic" posture people talk about having in a golf swing with the butt sticking out and the chin up isn't actually neutral; too much anterior pelvic tilt and the neck is extended. Too much anterior pelvic tilt causes stress on the lower back as you rotate.

If you stood straight up from that "athletic" posture without changing anything, your butt would be sticking out and you'd be looking up towards the sky.

The rounded upper back is probably what gives you the impression of c-spine posture. That's largely a product of relaxing the scapulae and allowing them to protract a little which they'll naturally want to do with your arms out in front of you instead of retracting them which can inhibit shoulder turn.


Is there something wrong with your shift key? 😜

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1 hour ago, billchao said:

No necessarily. You can squat and move your head downwards without doing anything to it. Tilting your head as I phrased it means you're bending your neck. Your neck is in flexion at address and progressively goes into extension all the way at the top of the backswing when you could just be in that slightly extended state at address to begin with.

thanks for clarifying and keen observation. to me the drill swing looks OK but i notice this now in the other swings. i have a couple of hunches about what's causing the change in angle and look forward to testing some things out to fix. it also looks like i could probably drop my chin an inch or so and still have room to make a turn.

and i think you mean it starts in extension and moves toward flexion just before the top of the backswing (?). i'd still rather have the entire spine in a neutral position at address, including the cervical spine/neck. starting with the cervical spine in extension puts more strain on my spine, makes it harder to turn, and as a result can also put strain on the shoulders, particularly the AC joints. 

1 hour ago, billchao said:

Like I said, a neutral spine when standing straight up and when slightly bent over are two different things. The "athletic" posture people talk about having in a golf swing with the butt sticking out and the chin up isn't actually neutral; too much anterior pelvic tilt and the neck is extended. Too much anterior pelvic tilt causes stress on the lower back as you rotate.

we're on the same page about pelvic tilt -- as part of my setup routine i induce a bit of posterior pelvic tilt before settling in over the ball. in this discussion i'm more concerned about thoracic and cervical spine (see below). 

1 hour ago, billchao said:

The rounded upper back is probably what gives you the impression of c-spine posture. That's largely a product of relaxing the scapulae and allowing them to protract a little which they'll naturally want to do with your arms out in front of you instead of retracting them which can inhibit shoulder turn.

i think the rounded upper back (especially in the older pictures) is due to more than relaxing the scapulae. there is practically zero tension in my scapulae at address (i just let my arms hang down) and i don't have c-posture. a couple of the worst offenders in that article (jack and arnie) had major back problems for basically their whole adult lives. 


2 hours ago, billchao said:

Is there something wrong with your shift key? 😜

heh. are you familiar with "emacs pinky"? 🤓

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