Flooded Bunker Question from Today's Round

[gbogey]

I don’t run into situations I don’t know how but happened again today. Ball went into bunker totally flooded with casual water - no place to drop in bunker to get relief from water.  Found the ruling confusing- it says if there is no relief take maximum relief in bunker, but there wasn’t a place to do so. Thoughts 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, gbogey said:

I don’t run into situations I don’t know how but happened again today. Ball went into bunker totally flooded with casual water - no place to drop in bunker to get relief from water.  Found the ruling confusing- it says if there is no relief take maximum relief in bunker, but there wasn’t a place to do so. Thoughts 

There’s always maximum available relief even if it means dropping in 5” of water instead of 10”.

You can also take the new unplayable option for two strokes.

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Edit: Or better yet do what @Asheville suggested. Derp. Brain fart.

[Asheville]

R16.1c2

(2) Penalty Relief: Playing from Outside Bunker (Back-On-the-Line Relief). For one penalty stroke, the player may drop the original ball or another ball (see Rule 14.3) in a relief area based on a reference line going straight back from the hole through the spot of the original ball:

[RickK]

You have been given the "official" Rules of Golf ruling.  That said, we don't have the option of playing under PGA Tour conditions where they have crews to pump the water out of bunkers before allowing play.  

To that end, I play in 2 tournament leagues where play is under the USGA Rules of Golf.  The committee has the option of declaring specific bunkers as Ground Under Repair...basically taking them out of play.  This is only done in cases where a bunker is completely filled with water, such as you describe, and it is not applicable to every bunker on the course.  If other bunkers are not completely filled with water and there is the ability to take relief inside the bunker itself...those bunkers are in play.  However right or wrong this may seem, it is equally fair.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by RickK

[Asheville]

Rick is correct. However, absent a Local Rule, the player's best bet is to play a second ball under Rule 20.1c3.

[Piz]

Why is a flooded bunker not considered casual water?  A sand trap is not designed to be a water hazard.  Are we supposed to treat a bunker as a small pond?  Why?

[Asheville]

21 minutes ago, Piz said:

Why is a flooded bunker not considered casual water?  A sand trap is not designed to be a water hazard.  Are we supposed to treat a bunker as a small pond?  Why?

Temporary water anywhere on the course except in a penalty area is afforded relief, mostly free except in a couple of circumstances one of which is in bunkers, and is covered in Rule 16.1.

 https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=16&subrulenum=1

[Piz]

12 minutes ago, Asheville said:

Temporary water anywhere on the course except in a penalty area is afforded relief, mostly free except in a couple of circumstances one of which is in bunkers, and is covered in Rule 16.1.

 https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=16&subrulenum=1

I understand and reckon my score accordingly.  The thing is...a bunker full to the brim, in these parts, is hardly an "abnormal" condition.  The last few months it is the norm.  My gripe is that the greens were not intended to be defended by ponds.  One day I'm trying to get up and down from a greenside bunker.  No problem...an interesting challenge.  The next day it's a lost ball.  That does not seem right.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Piz said:

The next day it's a lost ball.

Huh?

[Piz]

Just now, iacas said:

Huh?

The most notorious bunker, at my local, is so deep you can't see the green from the bottom of it.  Unless it hasn't rained in a good while it is always full of water.  There is no getting the ball out of it or even seeing where it is.  The ball is lost.  Although you have every reason to suspect it is in there somewhere; that somewhere cannot be determined.  You have to put another ball in play...or contract a pearl diver...which are in short supply around here.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Piz said:

The most notorious bunker, at my local, is so deep you can't see the green from the bottom of it.  Unless it hasn't rained in a good while it is always full of water.  There is no getting the ball out of it or even seeing where it is.  The ball is lost.  Although you have every reason to suspect it is in there somewhere; that somewhere cannot be determined.  You have to put another ball in play...or contract a pearl diver...which are in short supply around here.

It's not really the same kind of "lost" if you're virtually certain it's in there - you still get relief. It's not like you're required to take stroke and distance (like with a truly "lost" ball).

[Asheville]

7 hours ago, Piz said:

I understand and reckon my score accordingly.  The thing is...a bunker full to the brim, in these parts, is hardly an "abnormal" condition.  The last few months it is the norm.  My gripe is that the greens were not intended to be defended by ponds.  One day I'm trying to get up and down from a greenside bunker.  No problem...an interesting challenge.  The next day it's a lost ball.  That does not seem right.

The Rules aren't that mean. A ball which the player is certain is in an abnormal course condition but cannot locate or cannot retrieve is not a "lost ball". Okay, he or she might have to buy a new one but it'd not "lost" in the sense of Rule 18.

R16.1e. Relief for Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition

If a player’s ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that the ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may use this relief option instead of taking stroke-and-distance relief:

The player may take relief under Rule 16.1b, c or d, using the estimated point where the ball last crossed the edge of the abnormal course condition on the course as the spot of the ball for purposes of finding the nearest point of complete relief.