NY Times - More Americans are Giving Up Golf

[TourSpoon]

I agree with both of your posts on this issue. More focus on affordable easily maintained courses leads to longer term success. Combination of a golf course with some other type of venue that provides off season revenue, for cold weather areas, if the capital can be found makes sense also. I think something like a movie theatre, indoor tennis, health club, maybe even a bowling alley would all seem to make sense. Anything that peaks at a different time of year or day.

Good point about the cold weather areas. I tend to forget that golf is seasonal in most places. I was at a course in NC once that had ski slopes in the winter.

[Shindig]

My ideal experience doesn't need a 5 star restaurant, valet parking, full time locker attendent or water falls. I am more interested in playing golf in under 4 hours, having a place to grab a sandwich or a drink, and having an adequate place to practice.

At the N.T. Open, I was chatting with a Riviera member about the course. I asked why country club courses are so difficult and he told me that the people who join Riviera are there for the golf, not to go to dances.

Well, I don't think Riviera is going to be wanting for money any time soon. But I agree fully: I'd join a club (I doubt I'll afford Riviera any time soon), maybe, at some point, but I really want the golf course, preferably walkable, the sandwich bar, and practice facilities. I can go elsewhere for a health club. I certainly don't need the 5-star restaurant. Meanwhile, many of the things keeping people away from golf keep me in it. Noise doesn't bother me while I'm playing - the course I play the most is right near an airport. I deliberately don't have family commitments. As for the article itself, it seemed to have a whole lot of nothing, even by N.Y. Times standards. When I was reading it, it felt more like the article was gloating that golf was in the decline.

[Richie3Jack]

I did a study in college about golf back in '98 and while the industry was booming, this was foreseeable.

There were a lot of problems, particularly the lack of people picking up the game and sticking with it despite Tiger Mania. From the study I did, people were more interested in watching the game or playing a video of the game (remember how big Golden Tee was) than actually playing the game. And then it got to the point where people only wanted to see Tiger and we know how that played out.

I think one of the problems that people don't talk about much is how expensive it is to be a member these days. In Atlanta, the only place I can afford to be a member at is a good 20 miles away and in Atlanta traffic, that's a nightmare. There's way too many golf courses that have these Private Equity deals where even many of the homeowners find a golf membership cost prohibitive.

I figure about 4 months after my surgery I'll be looking to move out of Atlanta. Of course there's a billion reasons why I'm looking to move, but getting back into the game is one of them and I've made it a priority to find quality, but affordable golf memberships in the places I'm interested to moving to. While I've found it easier in other cities than Atlanta, it's still too much of a struggle and no wonder why so many quit the game.






3JACK

[Richie3Jack]

Course architecture may have something to do with it, but I've gotten pretty good at persuading folks not to play from the tips, so things aren't so bad...

Obviously slow play is a problem. I think the issue is that golf courses are dumb about slow play. I worked at Caledonia in Myrtle Beach (where they filmed the first Road Trip episode on TGC) about 10 years ago. Back then they used to alternate the pros doing the rangering.

They did a great job about slow play. You had 4 1/2 hours to play, meaning 15 minutes per hole. You were given a warning when you came into the Pro Shop about keeping up. You were then given a warning by the starter about slow play. And then if you were slow, they'd place a black flag on your cart to let the entire course know that you were the slow group. And if you didn't catch up in 3 holes, then you were moved to the hole you are supposed to be on. For every one or two slow players that would get mad, you would be stunned about the number of rave reviews you would get for speeding those players up. Caledonia did about 150 players a day, so if you can please 146 players by ticking off maybe 4 players, it's worth it. Not to mention that they made a killer off of replays which you can't do if you're playing 5+ hour rounds. Yet, 99% of the courses are deathly afraid to do this. They would rather make 146 players miserable in order to keep 4 players happy playing their pathetically slow round. 3JACK

[g-funk13]

Regardless of all that, I love golf and don't ever see quitting the game. It's one of the only sports you can do for life, and with your children, etc...... and I think there is great value in that.

AMEN BROTHER. I would never give it up, and I am glad to hear that there will be less bozos on the course. Bozo factor down is good for everyone. Including my two sons who I am teaching to respect the course and the game.

[Three Putt]

I really think the main cause is probably economics. Golf will probably always have a fairly high dropout rate because it's a hard game to learn, and even tougher to get good at. You will always have people taking up the game, but due to the slow plunge our economy has taken over the last 8 years less people are inclined to start the game I would imagine. I play the game rather cheaply, going to muni's and looking for avenue's for cheap golf, and even with that it's a pretty expensive hobby.

Great response, you have to find those bargains. My membership to a 6200 yard cypress swamp is $450 a year if you are under 45, $700 a year for a family, if you are under $45. It has an 18 hole course and a nine hole exec. course (new greens on the exec 2 years ago) Walk for free 8 months of the year, can walk after 4pm for free "in season". Plus of course leagues and scrambles. Also...cant think of any better thing to do than walk the exec course with my young kids once sometimes twice a week . Needless to say I think my $450 membership has paid for itself in about 3 months , time with the kids on the course....PRICELESS!

[TourSpoon]

Great response, you have to find those bargains. My membership to a 6200 yard cypress swamp is $450 a year if you are under 45, $700 a year for a family, if you are under $45. It has an 18 hole course and a nine hole exec. course (new greens on the exec 2 years ago) Walk for free 8 months of the year, can walk after 4pm for free "in season". Plus of course leagues and scrambles. Also...cant think of any better thing to do than walk the exec course with my young kids once sometimes twice a week .

Where are you Three Putt? That's not a bad deal at all.

[Three Putt]

http://www.magnoliavalleygolfclub.co...liavalleygolf/

In the heart of beautiful New Port Richey, Florida

[wachesawgolfer]

I see alot of good players and players of all levels quitting due to the time factors and wanting to spend weekends with the family. Golf and young children is a tough balancing act. I also think the difficulty many people have in finding a somewhat decent swing which repeats and consistent putting, make the decision to quit an easy one.

[immts007]

http://www.magnoliavalleygolfclub.co...liavalleygolf/

Oh man. I am so jealous... That is a FANTASTIC deal... I'm tempted to move to Port Richey, Florida.

The best I have nearby is $700 (single) a year for soggy around the greens public 9 hole course.

[Eore]

i believe that a lot of people today don't want to spend a lot of time on something they will almost always suck at!!

[SubPar]

What would be great is for about half the people playing golf to quit. Then maybe I could get in a 4 hour round!

SubPar

[packerfan1]

What would be great is for about half the people playing golf to quit. Then maybe I could get in a 4 hour round!

Ya, and if half of the people playing golf quit, half of your golf courses will close due to not enough business, the other half will have greens fees that double or triple. $50 a round for a nice 18 at a good course is expensive enoughfor me, I don't wish to spend triple that, even if I can shave a round down to 3 hours.

The solution to a sport's success NEVER is in limiting particiapation, it is learning how to grow the sport in numbers and popularity. Without growth the sport's business end will always suffer, certainly to the economic detriment of the remaining participants in the sport. There are many ways to quicken rounds with the existing number of golfers, and even with significant growth in the sport. When was the last time you saw a course ranger speed up play or reprimand truly slow play? You remember (if you are old enough) those rangers you feared as a kid, the ones that patrolled a course and actually kept things moving and kept wayward golfers' behavior in line? They no longer exist. Get rid of the damn golf carts, except for those in physical need of using a cart (the old, the physically disabled or the sick). Walking is quicker on most courses, I routinely walk 18 holes at 6500 yards in 3 hours give or take a few minutes. Quit taking 27 practice strokes before taking your swing. Don't spend 15 minutes lining up your putt from 4 different angles. I can go on and on. I love this sport, I want to see everyone enjoy golf as much as all of us on this board do. Growth is necessary and vital for golf to survive and remain a leisure activity that all of us can afford.

[Matt P]

The US is in a state of economic flux as we are headed into a recession, people's incomes do not strech as far as they once did and have far less disposable income. As a corollary, people also work more hours and have less time to spend with family and the first thing to go is usually discretionary activities. With small children, I find it very difficult to get out for 5-6 hours, golf plus travel plus food, and playing early nowadays does not seem to be any faster.

It would be interesting to see if there were similar stats as the US entered the last recession before the tech boom.

[SirMilton]

With $3.25 a gallon gasoline, $3.00 a loaf for bread and $10+ for a single steak, its a wonder most people have any discretionary money.

I agree that courses that penalize a ball hit straight, but short, are poorly designed. I personally think you should be able to putt the ball straight to the hole on virtually every hole, even if that straight shot is only a few feet wide. Carries of over 100 yards must have alternate "around" routes for most seniors, ladies and beginners. I have played golf in Arizona on "target" courses a lot (several hundred rounds) and on those courses, if you can't carry a ball 200 yards and put it in a 30 foot diameter circle, you can't hope to play 18 in under 120 strokes.

However, as far as sports and hobbies go, golf is relatively cheap, even if you go first class.

Want to get into bass fishing? Bassboats run $30,000-$70,000 and you need $10,000-$30,000 in gear at a minimum (my reels cost $400 each, rods about the same and there are over a dozen taken on each trip), lures run to $20 each and most anglers have hundreds or thousands. A typical day on the lake will involve about $250-$400 per person in expenses.

Saltwater fishing makes bass fishing look frugal; a good offshore tournament boat can run $2 million new. Lots of men spend six figures annually fishing saltwater.

Hunting ain't much better. $10,000 to $20,000+ a year is typical for someone who big game hunts (deer) and waterfowl (ducks) or upland bird hunts on a modest scale. Hunting nuts can spend big money ($30k for a 3 day hunt isn't unusual).

Motorcycles can get expensive fast, and sports cars get really expensive fast.

Chasing women is by far the most expensive and dangerous of all.

Unfortunately, I still do just about all of the above (very little of the last one anymore) 'cause I want to and I can afford to.

[jrm1493]

SirMilton - I think you are correct about golf being a relative bargain when compared to other (typically male) pastimes - I know tons of people who have boats and they have automatically spent more on that one purchase than I will probably ever spend on golf; then there are people who race/restore cars, again this costs an order of magnitude more. I used to fly airplanes (was thinking about it as a career, not a hobby); people that do that as a hobby are spending at least $100/hr plus fixed expenses like recurrent training and insurance. Every time I took a 2 hour lesson (and I have ~260 hrs and a commercial license) that was like playing Pebble Beach. It makes me sick to think of the cash I dropped on that "hobby", even though it did help me upgrade my engineering job.

I think the main problem with golf is that its just so damn hard for the average person who does not practice regularly, you have either be gifted or a little OCD to not embarass yourself. Most people my age (I'm 28) have been told they are special their entire life and the golf course tells them otherwise, which they do not like to hear.

[skewe]

Doubt that noise pollution is a factor at all

[nykfan4life]

NYT seems to like to quit on a lot of things... the war, hillary, and now golf. go figure