Advice Needed: Golf Coach and Practice

[Nagah]

Background - Been a 2 capper with very little coaching and was able to practice often.

Fast forward 15 Years. - Drifted out to 4 have some time to practice ( Got 3 kids always doing something through the week eg piano, swimming or other activities in the afternoon).

Question 1 is Will coaching every 2 weeks/ once a month and practicing 3 x a week ( range and 9 holes) help me get back to 2 or scratch ? The coach I’m looking at has coached 3 European players who have won on that tour and numerous other titles. So he has produced a lot of really good golfers

Question 2 - I’ve read LSW and devote the 65/20/15 application  to my practice 3 times a week.  Get to play 9 holes twice a week. Do I beat balls or play more 9/18 holes in between my coaching?

Its a catch 22. To implement changes into my swing do  I have to beat balls or do I play more. 

PS - I’m playing Scratch Pennant for my club which starts in Mid March and our Club Champs at the start of May.

PPS - I don’t care what handicap you play off. Any advice would be appreciated 👍

Edited February 13, 2020 by Nagah

[phillyk]

Don’t “beat balls.” How you practice and implement changes depends on the change. It’ll either be slow range practice, like 30-40balls. Or playing but using multiple balls to put yourself in the specific situations. Ideally, it’d be a bit of both. Those situations, hopefully come from your coach.

[Mr22putt]

1 hour ago, Nagah said:

Question 2 - I’ve read LSW and devote the 65/20/15 application 

 

Is 65/20/15?

65% spend on the swing and practiced full shots throughout the bag

20% pitching/chipping time inside 30 yards

15% time spent on putting

[Nagah]

Yes. Correct.

[Rippy_72]

Long story, hope there is something to help you here.  I was probably in a similar situation some many years ago due to family and career constraints.  I could stop playing for a while but then within several  weeks be playing be back at a 2-3 HcP.   Basically shooting 75-77 every other round at a good course.  I wanted to get better.  This is before statistics being used and all the information that we now have.  I hired the best local instructor and went weekly at $250/hr back in the 90's.  He immediately started to change my swing.  He wanted me to hit the hell out of it with my right hand.  I lost 40-50 yards off the tee.  I hit more fairways but GIR went down.  After many thousand dollars, I fired him.  He was fixing a problem that was not broken.  It is like if you bring a bucket of nails to a carpenter, he is going to bang them in.

Some years later, I decided to spend about 60 hours with Jim Mclean and his top staff.  He did not touch my swing.  He said something at dinner on the third night that stayed with me, "In case you have not noticed, we haven't done anything with your swing, we're trying to figure out why you are not a much better golfer".  That comment stayed with me.  I said, "But I am a 3 HcP" and he was, "No, you should be regularly in the 60's".  I was shocked. They did identify a visual problem in putting, it helped.  With their help my scores were more consistent (fewer bad rounds) but I still wasn't playing as well as I liked.  Years passed, I wasn't as serious of a golfer but played here and there.

I began playing serious again.  I decided straight away that I had to better dissect my game statistically to figure out where I was weak and where I was strong.  I didn't know where/how to get this data to compare.  Then, my plan was, I wanted to practice my weakness in the areas that would give me the biggest bang for the buck in relation to scoring.  I searched for a way to do that.  I found an online program called shotbyshot or something like that.  I forget right now.  You keep track of your drives, approaches, short shots, putts, proximity.  I entered this data for about 10 rounds.  It spit out my "handicap" for each area of my game.  It asked you what handicap you want to be.  Then, it shows you how you compare vs. your targeted HcP (my target was +2).  My long game and approach shots were +8.  Other areas were as bad as a 18-20 Hcp shockingly.  I remember my short 50 yard game being a 5, but I used to have a ton of those shots in a round of golf.  The program led me to practice just three areas.  I literally stopped hitting balls at the range, my GIR was in the 14-15.  I worked on those three areas.  Once those got better, I focused on two more areas.  In retrospect, knowing what parts of your game to practice is much more important than banging balls.  LSW seems like a very helpful framework.  Focusing my practice on the right areas got me down to +2 in a couple months.  I grew up as a caddy and was a talented athlete, so, this might not work for you but I would encourage you to have an honest look at where your game is weakest and especially if those weak areas align with the LSW areas, get help there and practice just those limited, focused areas.  Don;t just bang balls.

[Nagah]

Thanks Rippy_72. 
Some great advice there. I’ll check out that software.

Very similar story. Talented athlete in Rugby, Tennis and cricket. Played/Represented at Regional and State level.

My strengths are off the te about a 2 . Approach shots I’m about a 7 and putting about a 6.

Im happy just to see what I’m capable of as far as handicap goes.

Thanks again 👍

[ChetlovesMer]

5 hours ago, Nagah said:

Background - Been a 2 capper with very little coaching and was able to practice often.

Fast forward 15 Years. - Drifted out to 4 have some time to practice ( Got 3 kids always doing something through the week eg piano, swimming or other activities in the afternoon).

Question 1 is Will coaching every 2 weeks/ once a month and practicing 3 x a week ( range and 9 holes) help me get back to 2 or scratch ? The coach I’m looking at has coached 3 European players who have won on that tour and numerous other titles. So he has produced a lot of really good golfers

Question 2 - I’ve read LSW and devote the 65/20/15 application  to my practice 3 times a week.  Get to play 9 holes twice a week. Do I beat balls or play more 9/18 holes in between my coaching?

Its a catch 22. To implement changes into my swing do  I have to beat balls or do I play more. 

PS - I’m playing Scratch Pennant for my club which starts in Mid March and our Club Champs at the start of May.

PPS - I don’t care what handicap you play off. Any advice would be appreciated 👍

Okay, I'll share.

I am the opposite of you and @Rippy_72.

You two are both talented athletes who can roll out of bed and beat 95% of the golfing amateurs. I, on the other hand, once had a football coach tell me "It's lucky you are good at math". I love sports. Always have and I'll play any of them. I am not, however, not naturally good at any of them.

I am not naturally strong, naturally fast, I don't have a good arm, I can't jump high, I honestly have no rhythm at all (ask my wife). Not only all of that, but I'm almost 50 years old, and I didn't start playing golf until my mid-20's. Okay, so if I didn't get coaching, and had to rely on my natural abilities... well, I'm sure you could guess I would play off someplace between 28 and 36 hcp. 

I've seen a few different coaches in the 25 years I've been golfing. One guy really helped me and I got down to a 10 hcp. That was back in early 2000's. I worked with him for years. After kids and stuff my handicap went back up to high 20's. My current guy has helped me get to 7ish... and we have a plan to help me get lower. I've tried a few other coaches and it really didn't work out. I even "cheated" on my current guy for a while. Now, however, I'm committed to sticking with my guy and seeing how low I can get. 

So, why do I tell you all of this. Because, in my opinion, COACHING WORKS. You just gotta find the right coach. 

[Nagah]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Okay, I'll share.

I am the opposite of you and @Rippy_72.

You two are both talented athletes who can roll out of bed and beat 95% of the golfing amateurs. I, on the other hand, once had a football coach tell me "It's lucky you are good at math". I love sports. Always have and I'll play any of them. I am not, however, not naturally good at any of them.

I am not naturally strong, naturally fast, I don't have a good arm, I can't jump high, I honestly have no rhythm at all (ask my wife). Not only all of that, but I'm almost 50 years old, and I didn't start playing golf until my mid-20's. Okay, so if I didn't get coaching, and had to rely on my natural abilities... well, I'm sure you could guess I would play off someplace between 28 and 36 hcp. 

I've seen a few different coaches in the 25 years I've been golfing. One guy really helped me and I got down to a 10 hcp. That was back in early 2000's. I worked with him for years. After kids and stuff my handicap went back up to high 20's. My current guy has helped me get to 7ish... and we have a plan to help me get lower. I've tried a few other coaches and it really didn't work out. I even "cheated" on my current guy for a while. Now, however, I'm committed to sticking with my guy and seeing how low I can get. 

So, why do I tell you all of this. Because, in my opinion, COACHING WORKS. You just gotta find the right coach. 

I agree that coaching works to a point. If there is one thing I need is that I have to have a qualified coach look at my fundamentals. I think all golfers of all abilities can have some traits/ habits creep into set up/ grip/ ball position etc that have a profound effect on your ability to shoot good numbers.

Example for me is my feet/hips are square to the target except my shoulders which are closed. This can cause a double cross/pull or push slice. 
Consistently aiming/alignment with a sound grip is 80% of the golf swing.

[Bucki1968]

1 hour ago, Nagah said:

I agree that coaching works to a point. If there is one thing I need is that I have to have a qualified coach look at my fundamentals. I think all golfers of all abilities can have some traits/ habits creep into set up/ grip/ ball position etc that have a profound effect on your ability to shoot good numbers.

Example for me is my feet/hips are square to the target except my shoulders which are closed. This can cause a double cross/pull or push slice. 
Consistently aiming/alignment with a sound grip is 80% of the golf swing.

I agree with that 100%. It's not a bad idea to find a guy/gal just to take a look every once in a while. I coach a golf team and work with a couple pros at the club where we play so I have them take a look at me every couple weeks to make sure every thing looks good. I have hit a point, however, that improvement is going to take more practice and I don't have time for that right now.  It looks like you have more time than I do so maybe you'll have more success. At the end of the day...a players gotta play. 

[Rippy_72]

5 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

You two are both talented athletes who can roll out of bed and beat 95% of the golfing amateurs.

Don't feel bad, I have a huge handicap between the ears.

With various sporting endeavors, I found that consistency in practice was important.  When I wanted to get good at something, 2 months working 60-90 minutes per day at least 5 days a week was needed.

I found that going out for 9 holes in the evening alone allowed me to practice certain shots over and over until I learned them.  I should have mentioned to the OP and this is a minor point but it helped me on the 30-50 yard shots, I stuck to one ball and one ball only.  B330.    I used to be happy with 10-15 feet at 50 yards, but getting to an expectation of hope of getting inside 6 feet, can't change balls.

I also used to accept a 3 putt on a par 5 if I was far from the pin, I'd think, oh well....still a par.  I worked really hard lag putting.  I also worked hard on chipping to the point I would always think I was going to make them.  Then, I worked on 5 footers.   It was fun for me to see improvement in all these areas.  When it all came together, it was fun.

My original post wasn't to say an instructor can't help, I should have said.....figure out exactly where you need help.  Don't just immediately go for a makeover when you might just have a leak in the roof and some patching might get you from a 2 to scratch.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Rippy_72

[3jacker]

My coach told me my problem is that I'm an idiot but not a big enough one to be incredibly good (like DJ, Brooks).  And not smart enough to either (Tiger, Jack, Hogan).  I'm stuck in the mediocre middle.

[Nagah]

Once you get your handicap down past 6. On certain holes Pars don’t cut it. I feel you need at least 3 birdies in your round to off set the occasional bogey.
That’s why par 5s are your friend and Par 3s aren’t. For me it’s easier to score a birdie on a par 5 than 3. 
I think too that your mental state and general thinking around course has to neutral. That is not over amped or not caring at all. 

[Rippy_72]

It is true that birdies become more important as one's handicap lowers but it also depends on the course or at least how we did handicaps in the USA, best 10 of 20.  If a par 70 course is rated at 75, if your best 10 average 75, you are a scratch essentially.  But if that average of 75 for ten scores comes on a par 72 rated at 69, you'd be a 6 HcP (ignoring slope)  I frequently play a par 72 rated 74.x from the tips, it has five par 3 holes and five par 5 holes.  Making par on the threes is essential to a good score.  I hope to make birdie or better on each of the 5's but that isn't going to always happen.  Not making bogie on the par 3 holes, hitting the center of the green and two putting has helped me unless the pin is in an easy spot.  When I was +2, I rarely made less than 4 birdies per round from the regular tees (72 rated).  Interesting if there are statistics along those lines.  I used to play with a guy who was +3 on a course rate 74.5 from the tips, he never made bogey and rarely made birdie (1-2 per round).  He did not hit the ball far.