European Tour - the true World Tour?

[RichF]

Who should excite me about the European tour? I love Els but that is it. People want to see greatness and if you try to sell me on Justin Rose versus Tiger Woods you are going to be out on the street. With Mickelson and Tiger playing their best golf now, it will be a long time before the European tour catches up.

Didn't someone state that the difference between Woods and Mickelson is greater than that of Mickelson and #1000?

And as Ruari said above, how often do we get to see #1 and #2 go H2H? Kinda puts the mythical 'Woods-Mickelson-Rivalry' in perspective, really....

[iacas]

Didn't someone state that the difference between Woods and Mickelson is greater than that of Mickelson and #1000?

That's only because "#1000" is basically 0. I think that stat is kind of dumb, including the #1000... Tiger has more than 2x the points Phil has - THAT has more weight, I believe.

As I said on the podcast, I think the European Tour has more firepower at the top, but the Nationwide Tour is deeper.

[r7 425]

That's only because "#1000" is basically 0. I think that stat is kind of dumb, including the #1000... Tiger has more than 2x the points Phil has - THAT has more weight, I believe.

You hit the nail on the head. Thats what ive been trying to say on these forums. I know golf and the Nationwide Tour is the best tour top to bottom.

[Ruari]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by r7 425, quoting iacas,
"I know golf and the Nationwide Tour is the best tour top to bottom."

I would suggest that, if thou truly believeth what thou saith, then not only doest thou not know golf, but thou knowest not thy backside from thy elbow, either.

Just been checking out the WGC-CA final results...

Nine of the top 20 are current - that's ongoing, playing in events this year - European Tour players.
None (nada, niete, nul, zero, not any) are current Nationwide Tour players.
Actually, none of the finishers are current Nationwide Tour players.
Good gracious - on further checking, I find that none of the starters were current Nationwide tour players, either.

Doesn't say much for 'strength in depth' does it? Or even 'strength in shallows'.

In fact, 31 of the starters are current European Tour players.

Lift your head a bit, look at the big world rather than the backyard ball you seem to be focused on, and repeat after me: "The European Tour is not a feeder for the PGA TOUR. The European Tour is a major Tour in its own right. The Nationwide Tour is the feeder to the PGA TOUR, like the Challenge Tour is the feeder to the European Tour, and would only be compared with a major tour in the mind of someone who knows not whereof he speaks."

[T.J.K.]

I'm confused. I understand that a lot of these European players are on the European Tour, but do they not play more golf on the PGA Tour??

Most of the players that are listed seem to be in every tournament I watch....

[JaY_B]

That's only because "#1000" is basically 0. I think that stat is kind of dumb, including the #1000... Tiger has more than 2x the points Phil has - THAT has more weight, I believe.

Completely disagree, European Tour has impressive strength in depth, however off the top of my head I can think of no fair way of comparing the strength in depth of the two tours so we shall have to agree to disagree.

[Ruari]

I'm confused. I understand that a lot of these European players are on the European Tour, but do they not play more golf on the PGA Tour??

If you restrict your viewing to only the WGC events, Majors and other championships that Tiger plays in, then I can well understand that the players seem to be in every tournament you watch.

For example, Ernie Els has played four PGA TOUR events this year - the two WGCs, the PODS and the Honda Clasic (which he won). According to the European Tour website, he's played seven European sanctioned or co-sanctioned events, though I can only find six. They are: the two WGC events, Indian Masters, Dubai Desert Classic (which Tiger won after Ernie threw it away), South African Airways Open, and the Alfred Dunhill Championship. Vijay has played 5 European events, 9 TOUR; Harrington: 3 TOUR, 5 European. Stenson: not a TOUR player, so you'll only see him in Majors, WGC and as a result of some invitations. etc., etc. It depends on the schedule the individuals adopt, how things balance out - but the PGA requires players to compete in more events than the European Tour in order to keep their cards - and they levy some kind of penalty for not playing, which Ernie was rather vocal about and that requirement appears to have been modified. Anyway, it's likely that the 15-v-11 events requirement will mean that players will appear quite often in the US, usually in the bigger events. And they enjoy the prizemoney, too, which is currently more plentiful on the PGA TOUR. As a matter of interest, of the European Tour events that Ernie, Vijay, Harrington, etc have played in this season, do you know how many have been in Europe? None. They've been in S Africa, China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, the Mid-East and the US (WGC events). This season's first event actually in Europe was this weekend - the Madeira Open. The Open de Andalucia is next weekend and the Portugal Open the one following but it's not till after the Masters that things really get going on the home continent, with the Spanish Open in Seville, 1-4 May. That's after a couple more events in China. All of which brings us back to the original discussion: that the European Tour is the World Tour. And no, the Nationwide - worthy training ground and effective feeder to the TOUR though it may well be - isn't in the frame.

[hawkeye]

Good man Ruari - great points you make.

[Ruari]

Good man Ruari - great points you make.

Thank you kindly, yer honner!

[Ruari]

I can think of no fair way of comparing the strength in depth of the two tours so we shall have to agree to disagree.

How about World Ranking Points? How do Nationwide Tour tournaments compare with European?

err.....they don't, as the possibly somewhat misled Arjun Atwal may now be realising.

[JaY_B]

How about World Ranking Points? How do Nationwide Tour tournaments compare with European?

I don't understand, do you think the Nationwide Tour or the European Tour is stronger?

I still feel like the European Tour is being underestimated by a lot of posters in this thread

[Ruari]

I don't understand, do you think the Nationwide Tour or the European Tour is stronger?

As European Tour events get full world ranking points, up to and including Major level for the British Open, and the Nationwide does not, there is no question - the European Tour is stronger.

Even discussing a comparison is fatuous and exhibits ignorance of the game on the part of those who promote the Nationwide. It's a feeder tour; the European is a full tour, second only to the PGA in money and prestige - and that difference is rapidly being eroded with the launch of the Race to Dubai, which reflects that the European isn't simply European any more - it's the World Tour. Notah Begay III had the opportunity to qualify for the Nationwide and work his way back that way. He's chosen to join the European Tour - it will be the quicker route back into the world's top 100, if he succeeds. So far he hasn't, really, but I for one wish him every good fortune as he rebuilds his career. But he recognises the strength of the European - better ranking points, from better competition, with higher ranked players than one could ever find on the Nationwide. What is interesting is that some European players have chosen to go to the Nationwide, including last year's moneylist winner. Quite a few of them went across the Atlantic after failing to get through the European Q-School, which is very tough. How come Gary Emerson made it, in the form he's in, is a mystery to me! But it does indicate the difference in standards - Gary has made one cut on tour so far this year; others, who didn't even qualify, are doing OK on the Nationwide. I agree with you - there are some posters who underestimate the European Tour, possibly because they don't know enough about it - the TV, mag and newspaper coverage may be lacking in the US. So we must forgive their errors born of ignorance and work to educate them!

[JaY_B]

As European Tour events get full world ranking points, up to and including Major level for the British Open, and the Nationwide does not, there is no question - the European Tour is stronger.

Glad thats cleared up

Agreed, although it is only due to the lack of media converage.