A Question About Making Sure the Range Work Is Accurate

[darthweasel]

I am trying to figure out how to make sure the "gains" I make on the range are actually gains and not false feedback. 

---

Actual example: I had corrupted my swing recently and spent a couple weeks going to the range every other day trying to correct it. I was trying hard to enact the 5-S principles in every range session.

. I experimented with weight shifts, different lengths of backswing, working on swing path...obviously not all at once, that would contradict the 5 S principles...but as I got one down, I would move on to the next and would make sure at the next session those changes were taking. I definitely showed improvement.

Most of the work was with short irons and wedges but I was finding the work paid off. My swing was smoother, I was making much better contact...one thing about working off mats, they may hide the misses but when you get used to hearing that pure, crisp "click" of good contact, it helps. And using principles I saw on a Phil Mickelson shot shaping video, I actually was having some success hitting a fairly straight ball and actually getting the ball to draw most of the time I tried it. I even hit a deliberate fade then tried to draw it again with pretty good (for me) success. I did that as a test to see if I could go away from the draw and come back to it or if it was that sensitive to change.

My wedges were getting dialed. My 3/4 swing with a 50 degree was all over the 100 yard sign in both distance and direction....it is designed to be a 95 yard swing, I was hitting mostly from angles off to the left, but the ball was landing in a circle I was very pleased with. I was feeling good about my swing...the fat shot, if not eliminated, would at least be much reduced, the direction would not be what i have taken to calling my "360 degree miss"....dead pull, massive slice, fat chunk or the pure hit that sails 40 yards beyond my intended target I have been scuffling with. 

So this last Saturday I went out for perhaps the last time this year as I am not a rainy golfer...I wanted to test the new swing. I also plan to work on the swing at the range for the next few months.

Well, for the first few holes I abandoned everything I was working on but about hole 7 I reined myself in. Light grip, weight forward, hover the club, Smooth swing, crisp contact...and all the stuff I anticipated was not there. 

My 3h was exactly what I was looking for...decent distance, decent direction. The wedge was within reason, I feel good. Next hole, par 3, I pull my 9i, looking for anything between 140 and 145. Pure swing, fantastic contact...162 yards. In fact, that became a theme...few holes later it went 177. That is actually a major, major problem. A 9i should be a coring club, I want to use it for anything 140-150 yards, and 145 is my target number. When I miss by 30 yards, now I am chipping from a location I probably don't want to be in and it will be hard to score.  Worse, the subsequent hole, off the tee I shank it 30 yards right and all of 119 yards long.  And I cannot pinpoint what I am doing different in my swing.

Now, on the bright side, I did make minimal gains across the board in strokes gained...tee shots .02 better, approach .08 better, short game .15 better, and overall went --1.20 versus my overall -1.30. But it did not FEEL better. Ended up playing second 36 same day, different course. Shot 2 strokes better...but it was much different, whereas in the morning I went 46-44, in the afternoon I went 40-48. Strokes gained was a reversal...tee shots .10 worse, approach .01 worse, short game .04 better, and overall 11.11 versus -1.30.

So now I am nervous about my plan to work on the swing. Some things I know for sure what the feedback will be...eliminating the fat shots, I can listen for that click. When I hit behind the ball and get away with it because of the mat, that is not fooling me. I have learned both the feel and the sound. The distance and direction are harder to ascertain...i am often coming from an angle and have a couple issues...even with my prescription glasses, I am at best estimating how far left or right I am landing and also am I short or long?

When I am hitting at the 150 yard sign that is actually 146 yards out from my angle, if I see it splash down in the puddles right next to the sign....that I can estimate. That was a really good shot for my skill level. But lets say I am 15% left or right...am I 20 yards left? 10? 30? Also, because I am hitting at an angle, I am not on a direct line. So did I hit it 142? or am I wildly off such as live fire drills on the course are proving to be the case? 

I don't want to spend all winter working on breaking my swing down, doing the small drill, working it bigger and bigger until it is my regular swing, thinking I have it dialed in, going out on the course in May and finding out I have been making it worse and less consistent.

The first and obvious answer is "lessons" and here is my argument why that is a bad argument. I took lessons. A lot of them. And they did help...but they also kind of become a "you need to constantly be going for lessons to tweak what you are doing wrong" and what they did not do was teach me how to own my swing. I need to develop a consistent, repeatable swing that I know well enough to know how to correct when it goes south. 

The second would be picking up a launch monitor. I can't really use it at home so it has to be small, portable and cheap. I actually considered the Mevo but can't figure out how to also use it as a simulator at the course so am less interested.

Without access to a Mevo or something like that, is there a way I can really figure out the feedback on the range to make sure I am not inadvertently ingraining bad habits? It is a borderline rhetorical question...people did it for a long time before launch monitors were invented, I guess the question is how. Any thoughts on where I should look?

Edited November 4, 2021 by iacas
removed unnecessary carriage returns

[klineka]

There's a lot to break down throughout your post.

3 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

Actual example: I had corrupted my swing recently and spent a couple weeks going to the range every other day trying to correct it. I was trying hard to enact the 5-S principles in every range session.

. I experimented with weight shifts, different lengths of backswing, working on swing path...obviously not all at once, that would contradict the 5 S principles...but as I got one down, I would move on to the next and would make sure at the next session those changes were taking. I definitely showed improvement.

First, swing changes take time. Every other day for a couple weeks of perfect practice might have been enough for ONE of those things you mentioned (weight shift, length of swing, etc) to become ingrained just at the driving range. Even then depending on how drastic of a change it is, it barely might be ready for you to take that single new feeling to the course. Even then, your first round or two with the new piece will likely be a blend of the old and new feelings, and will require additional time at the range after those rounds to get the proper feeling back again.

13 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

My 3h was exactly what I was looking for...decent distance, decent direction. The wedge was within reason, I feel good. Next hole, par 3, I pull my 9i, looking for anything between 140 and 145. Pure swing, fantastic contact...162 yards. In fact, that became a theme...few holes later it went 177. That is actually a major, major problem. A 9i should be a coring club, I want to use it for anything 140-150 yards, and 145 is my target number. When I miss by 30 yards, now I am chipping from a location I probably don't want to be in and it will be hard to score.  Worse, the subsequent hole, off the tee I shank it 30 yards right and all of 119 yards long.  And I cannot pinpoint what I am doing different in my swing.

Because your swing likely didn't change all that much in those couple weeks of practice. Maybe a little, but good chances are significant changes didn't take hold yet.

16 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

So now I am nervous about my plan to work on the swing. Some things I know for sure what the feedback will be...eliminating the fat shots, I can listen for that click. When I hit behind the ball and get away with it because of the mat, that is not fooling me. I have learned both the feel and the sound. The distance and direction are harder to ascertain...i am often coming from an angle and have a couple issues...even with my prescription glasses, I am at best estimating how far left or right I am landing and also am I short or long?

Your plan needs to involve identifying specific pieces of your swing/body motions you are doing incorrectly (most likely through a lesson or two) then work on those one at a time (one change might take you this entire offseason) to get it fully ingrained. That involves all of the slow motion work at the range, filming yourself, increasing the speed, filming yourself, repeat, repeat, then take it to the course in the spring and even consider filming yourself on the course and comparing those swings to the range swings. If both of those match up, then you can transition onto the next piece.

 

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

 

I don't want to spend all winter working on breaking my swing down, doing the small drill, working it bigger and bigger until it is my regular swing, thinking I have it dialed in, going out on the course in May and finding out I have been making it worse and less consistent.

It's possible that you will slightly regress initially as you make swing changes. That's normal. If you practice properly and focus on your one specific piece at a time and truly give it enough time to take affect as I described earlier, then over time you will get better. If you don't give each change enough time to fully get ingrained and prove that you can take that new motion to the course before moving onto the next piece, then you'll likely continue to spin your tires and not improve as quickly as possible.

23 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

The first and obvious answer is "lessons" and here is my argument why that is a bad argument. I took lessons. A lot of them. And they did help...but they also kind of become a "you need to constantly be going for lessons to tweak what you are doing wrong" and what they did not do was teach me how to own my swing. I need to develop a consistent, repeatable swing that I know well enough to know how to correct when it goes south. 

My counterpoint to that is that from what you have described, even though you are attempting to keep the 5S principles in every session, you aren't practicing properly. You are moving from piece to piece too quickly. You shouldn't need to go to constant lessons, lessons (about one specific topic like iron swing) should be infrequent as it will take you time to fully implement the priority piece that you/your instructor identified in your lesson.

You own your swing by working with your instructor to identify one very specific piece that needs improvement and why, and owning that piece until it's fixed. Then move to the next piece. You don't need to own fixing your entire swing at once.

28 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

 The second would be picking up a launch monitor. I can't really use it at home so it has to be small, portable and cheap. I actually considered the Mevo but can't figure out how to also use it as a simulator at the course so am less interested.

Without access to a Mevo or something like that, is there a way I can really figure out the feedback on the range to make sure I am not inadvertently ingraining bad habits? It is a borderline rhetorical question...people did it for a long time before launch monitors were invented, I guess the question is how. Any thoughts on where I should look?

As far as the launch monitor, if you want actual simulator level capabilities instead of just shot/yardage tracking, you need the Mevo +, not the Mevo.

The best way to make sure you aren't ingraining bad habits on the range is by filming yourself in slow motion with proper camera angles 

[iacas]

Before I get into the bottom of your post… I take these as true statements based on reading your post:

• You seem to have "experimented" or "tried" a bunch of things.
• You did this over the span of 2-4 weeks (you said "couple" which is two, but maybe you meant "few weeks").
• You did this primarily with short irons.
• On the course you hit your 9I too far, twice, and on the range your 3/4 50° was flying the 100-yard sign when it's a 95-yard club.
• You tried to employ the 5S stuff (good), but I didn't see any mention of the use of video, mirrors, etc.
• You played slightly better than you had been, but didn't "feel" good about it during or after the round.

I feel that's all accurate based on what I've read above.

Have you seen our "stupid monkey" topic here? I'm not sure you would be close to getting that badge, because in the 5S method of practice, you don't "experimented with weight shifts, different lengths of backswing, working on swing path" and you certainly don't do that over a "couple of weeks." To be a Stupid Monkey you work on the one thing, using the 5S stuff (two of those words are simple and specific, none of them are "switch").

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

The first and obvious answer is "lessons" and here is my argument why that is a bad argument. I took lessons. A lot of them. And they did help...but they also kind of become a "you need to constantly be going for lessons to tweak what you are doing wrong"

Not true (bold part).

I give lessons to many golfers who see me once every 3-6 weeks. You know what they work on for those six weeks in between? The one thing I've given them to work on.

Now we're into the "conjecture" part of my list. These are all educated guesses:

• You didn't get much better, really. You just got in a groove because you practiced and hit a lot more balls than you normally do. So, you didn't really change your swing.
• You didn't really follow the 5S, because you were making stuff up about what to work on, and it's highly unlikely you did it slowly enough. Some students I like them to hit the ball literally 30 yards at first when working on something. For a week. Then they graduate to 45 yards! 😄
• You're not an instructor, and you were a little lax about using video or mirrors, and instead relied on your "feels" and how the ball reacted and/or how contact felt.

Look, I went at it myself and got down to a 1.4. I can understand the expense and/or time constraints of taking lessons (not as often as you seem to have been taking them). But… folks like me spend their days and nights doing this stuff, thinking about this stuff. You wouldn't want someone doing your job as a hobby, right?

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

and what they did not do was teach me how to own my swing. I need to develop a consistent, repeatable swing that I know well enough to know how to correct when it goes south. 

And a good instructor can do just that for you (there's a role you have to play too, as in being an active participant, asking good questions, etc.).

Sounds like you worked with someone who wasn't great.

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

The second would be picking up a launch monitor. I can't really use it at home so it has to be small, portable and cheap. I actually considered the Mevo but can't figure out how to also use it as a simulator at the course so am less interested.

The Mevo+ is the one with the sim stuff. Currently $1799 shipped. But if you're getting it for the "sim" stuff, why would want to use that at the course?

Launch monitors are great. The Mevo+ is one of if not the best. But you are probably a few steps before that.

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

Without access to a Mevo or something like that, is there a way I can really figure out the feedback on the range to make sure I am not inadvertently ingraining bad habits?

Video. Mirrors. Knowledge.

20 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

It is a borderline rhetorical question...people did it for a long time before launch monitors were invented, I guess the question is how. Any thoughts on where I should look?

The tools help speed things up, though.

[Darkfrog]

36 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

I experimented

I don't think trial and error is an effective way of resolving mechanical issues with a golf swing, unless you already have a super fundamentally sound motion.

23 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

The first and obvious answer is "lessons" and here is my argument why that is a bad argument. I took lessons. A lot of them. And they did help...but they also kind of become a "you need to constantly be going for lessons to tweak what you are doing wrong" and what they did not do was teach me how to own my swing. I need to develop a consistent, repeatable swing that I know well enough to know how to correct when it goes south.

Have you considered web-based instruction, like Evolvr? Seems like a lot of folks here are satisfied with the program, and my sense is that it can be self-paced so you make sure a priority piece is addressed before moving on to something new.

I get what you are saying about lessons feeling like constantly tweaking things/minor adjustments, but in my experience, every time I go to a lesson and my teacher suggests some minor adjustments to correct issues I am experiencing, it is more due to my own fault of bad habits or poor practice. When I do enough good practice between lessons, we usually move on to something new, instead of correcting new faults.

[darthweasel]

lot to think about from all three of you, appreciate it. Will revisit this quite a bit as I build back up toward where I want to be. I think I might narrow it entirely down to contact as the biggest frustration I have right now is the fat shot so if I just work on that this winter will be the step. 

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

lot to think about from all three of you, appreciate it. Will revisit this quite a bit as I build back up toward where I want to be. I think I might narrow it entirely down to contact as the biggest frustration I have right now is the fat shot so if I just work on that this winter will be the step. 

That's not "narrowing it down" much at all.

So, if you think that's "narrowing it down" then you really likely didn't prioritize and work on one thing long enough.

[klineka]

19 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

lot to think about from all three of you, appreciate it. Will revisit this quite a bit as I build back up toward where I want to be. I think I might narrow it entirely down to contact as the biggest frustration I have right now is the fat shot so if I just work on that this winter will be the step. 

Hitting it fat is the result. You need to (likely with an instructor) determine the cause and focus on that.

[darthweasel]

On 11/2/2021 at 6:36 PM, iacas said:

That's not "narrowing it down" much at all.

So, if you think that's "narrowing it down" then you really likely didn't prioritize and work on one thing long enough.

going from multiple clubs, distance, direction, swing path to just contact feels like eliminating a lot of things.  With that said, I certainly accept the premise that I did not prioritize or work on one thing long enough, your experience and success rates speak for themselves.  But it also lets me know I am not as interested in improvement as I thought I was. And that in and of itself is a very valuable lesson which I appreciate. 

[klineka]

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

going from multiple clubs, distance, direction, swing path to just contact feels like eliminating a lot of things.  

Yes, but just saying "I'm going to focus on contact and not hitting the ball fat" isn't specific enough for your body to stop hitting it fat. You have to figure out (with an instructor) what is wrong with your swing/body motion physically that is causing you to make poor contact/hit it fat and then work to fix that movement. 

Making solid contact will be the result of you improving a piece (or might be pieces) of your swing.

[darthweasel]

that makes sense. And I will still be going to the range and narrowing my focus, but not as much as it sounds like I should. When I hit the range Tuesday I went block practice, something historically I have seldom done, and it was an entire session using a half swing 60 at the flag 46 yards out working on contact and then direction....which this thread has pretty convincingly stated is too much, but for my personality is about as much as I will be able to shorten it.

Golf is atypical for me in how slowly it comes. Most sports I pick up and end up at worst average and in most cases better. IE racquetball took me a month go go B and the second tournament I was in the A bracket. Some of the stuff I have been working on...like the weight shift, that was 5 minutes and done. It has gone from frequent problem to once every couple rounds. I am okay with that...

so for me, narrowing it to where I have will get me where I have re-aligned my goals to  want to go. I have come to terms with the reality that means I will never be a single digit...but spending the winter grooving the path I am working on with the wedges, that I can do.

More detailed...it would drive me insane. I can handle practice, I can even handle repetition.  I can't handle grind like the actual 5 s plan requires and that will forever separate me from good golf.  

Which is okay. I will spend most of my time in the 90s with a few forays into the 80s and the 2 in the 70s I have had in my career until my distance fades and I am okay with that now. Lol prior to this thread I would have answered different, but I don't want to spend 3 weeks working to move 10 yards...which is my personality flaw, I really want to make sure I clarify that. Knowing what is in front of me changes the mountain I want to climb.

Edited November 4, 2021 by iacas
just one carriage return at the end of paragraphs please

[iacas]

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

that makes sense. And I will still be going to the range and narrowing my focus, but not as much as it sounds like I should. When I hit the range Tuesday I went block practice, something historically I have seldom done, and it was an entire session using a half swing 60 at the flag 46 yards out working on contact and then direction....which this thread has pretty convincingly stated is too much, but for my personality is about as much as I will be able to shorten it.

I think what some are saying (and what I would agree with) is that "working on contact and direction" is not really how you make changes in your golf swing. It's how you try to "groove" what you've got, but it's not really making you better.

I'd rather see a student know what ONE piece they're working on and shanking every other ball because they're doing something a) new, and b) exaggerated, than just generally work on "contact and direction."

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

Golf is atypical for me in how slowly it comes. Most sports I pick up and end up at worst average and in most cases better.

Most sports are way f***ing easier, and athletic, and responsive. And honestly, because you're playing against someone else, you can rely on them to screw up and help you out. Golf has no such thing: you're instantly and always playing the highest level of the game.

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

Some of the stuff I have been working on...like the weight shift, that was 5 minutes and done. It has gone from frequent problem to once every couple rounds. I am okay with that...

I doubt it, honestly. Feel ain't real, man. And your previous instructor may not have been very good.

Where is your Member Swing topic?

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

so for me, narrowing it to where I have will get me where I have re-aligned my goals to  want to go. I have come to terms with the reality that means I will never be a single digit...but spending the winter grooving the path I am working on with the wedges, that I can do.

If you just want to groove the swing you've got, then just go beat a bunch of balls. But none of that - not even half swings working on "contact and direction," are what the "5S" of practice are about.

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

More detailed...it would drive me insane. I can handle practice, I can even handle repetition.  I can't handle grind like the actual 5 s plan requires and that will forever separate me from good golf.

I really don't think you understand what the 5S stuff is. If you can go hit half shots with a lob wedge for 30 minutes, you'd be fine doing the 5S stuff actually correctly.

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

Which is okay. I will spend most of my time in the 90s with a few forays into the 80s and the 2 in the 70s I have had in my career until my distance fades and I am okay with that now. Lol prior to this thread I would have answered different, but I don't want to spend 3 weeks working to move 10 yards...which is my personality flaw, I really want to make sure I clarify that. Knowing what is in front of me changes the mountain I want to climb.

So this is how this reads:

• "Hey guys, am I practicing the right way?"
• "No, here's how you're not."
• "Oh, I don't want to practice the right way anyway, so I'll just be content to shoot in the 80s or 90s forever."

True? If so, cool. Not everyone wants to practice.

But you seem to want to practice, seem to have the personality that will let you hit half lob wedges for 30 minutes, and yet you say in the next breath you can't practice the right way.

I don't think you know what the right way is.

[darthweasel]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

 

So this is how this reads:

• "Hey guys, am I practicing the right way?"
• "No, here's how you're not."
• "Oh, I don't want to practice the right way anyway, so I'll just be content to shoot in the 80s or 90s forever."

True? If so, cool. Not everyone wants to practice.

But you seem to want to practice, seem to have the personality that will let you hit half lob wedges for 30 minutes, and yet you say in the next breath you can't practice the right way.

I don't think you know what the right way is.

I don't think this is an unfair critique. You have amply demonstrated I misunderstood the 5 S principles. I definitely see the difference between what I am doing and what I am expected to do. 

I am still trying to learn the broad strokes of a swing I understand and since I don't have the right moves for that I am not sure what specific move to practice.  I am studying the principles of the golf swing and using what I learn to experiment to get the distance and direction consistent.  Doing the same thing repeatedly for weeks when I am not sure it is right is not something I can mentally bring myself to do which I freely admit is my own bad habit. 

Not trying to be obstinate...this thread really has been very helpful to me. It helped me realize my misunderstanding of the principles, helped me realize my goals were wrong for where I am right now, and helped me realize I had been an extremely poor student of golf (example below).

At the moment, I am still in the phase of trying to figure out the right moves to get direction consistent after which I will work on the right moves to get distance consistent. For me, that requires some experimenting to see what results I get from various small changes...although I suspect I am making too big of changes and thinking they are small so I will attempt to work on that. 

I will keep working on it. I am definitely not the guy that was there the other night who went through 2 large buckets of balls while I was going through a small...I do like to hit a shot, think about what i did, what the result was, consider ball flight laws, think about what adjustment I should make, make a small adjustment...try again. So I am not quitting on the idea of  range work, I am just accepting that I will be limiting the improvement I can make because I am practicing sub-optimally. 

 

 

The story: I had a really bad outside in swing...as in often 10 to 14 degree and occasionally worse. Matt was trying to get it either less exaggerated or potentially even inside out. The first step was to exaggerate the swing to right field. "Don't worry about where the ball goes. Just make sure it goes there." Looking at it, i would think, "that is a bad shot" and my attempt to "this is going to right no matter what" would be outside in 11 degrees. Which was not a good shot but I could not get it through my thick skull that I had to hit some awful shots in order to hit some good ones.  If I would not do that he could not adjust it to a reasonable number because I never got even to a reasonable number because I did not want to hit that bad a shot.  It is only in this thread that I have realized how bad a student I was because of that mental block. lol progress! I now know I am an (golf) idiot...

 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

I am still trying to learn the broad strokes of a swing I understand and since I don't have the right moves for that I am not sure what specific move to practice.

That's something your instructor should have covered with you.

And again I'll ask: where's your Member Swing topic?

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

I am studying the principles of the golf swing and using what I learn to experiment to get the distance and direction consistent.  Doing the same thing repeatedly for weeks when I am not sure it is right is not something I can mentally bring myself to do which I freely admit is my own bad habit.

Nobody has suggested you just blindly "do something for weeks" without knowing if it's right.

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

At the moment, I am still in the phase of trying to figure out the right moves to get direction consistent after which I will work on the right moves to get distance consistent. For me, that requires some experimenting to see what results I get from various small changes...although I suspect I am making too big of changes and thinking they are small so I will attempt to work on that.

 

You're a 13.3 according to your profile: you already get the "distance and direction" down. You're not a beginner. You need to find the priority "piece" as I call it and work on that. The "distance and direction" improve as a result.

You're guessing. At least it seems like it.

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

I will keep working on it. I am definitely not the guy that was there the other night who went through 2 large buckets of balls while I was going through a small...I do like to hit a shot, think about what i did, what the result was, consider ball flight laws, think about what adjustment I should make, make a small adjustment...try again.

That's not a good way to make a change. You can't worry about what the ball does at first.

Good quote from this topic (and from The Golfing Machine😞

Quote

The Three Imperatives and Essentials operate to correct faulty procedures. So, if they seem elusive, it is invariably because you are trying to execute them while you hit the ball - in your accustomed manner. That must be reversed. Learn to do those things even if you miss the ball - until you no longer miss it. There is no successful alternative (3-B).

You can't be worried with what the ball does. Not at first. If what you're working on is right, you'll arrive at the point where "you no longer miss it."

1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

The story: I had a really bad outside in swing...as in often 10 to 14 degree and occasionally worse. Matt was trying to get it either less exaggerated or potentially even inside out. The first step was to exaggerate the swing to right field. "Don't worry about where the ball goes. Just make sure it goes there." Looking at it, i would think, "that is a bad shot" and my attempt to "this is going to right no matter what" would be outside in 11 degrees. Which was not a good shot but I could not get it through my thick skull that I had to hit some awful shots in order to hit some good ones.  If I would not do that he could not adjust it to a reasonable number because I never got even to a reasonable number because I did not want to hit that bad a shot.  It is only in this thread that I have realized how bad a student I was because of that mental block. lol progress! I now know I am an (golf) idiot...

That sounds like a form of instruction that I just can't get behind.

"Oh, you're swinging left? Well, swing to the right!!" No thank you.

Again… where's your member swing topic?

 

I don't think you've ever experienced good instruction.

[Phil McGleno]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Again… where's your member swing topic?

@darthweasel-You have ducked this question a few times.-Why do you not want the FREE HELP that people here so willingly give?

[darthweasel]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:21 PM, Phil McGleno said:

@darthweasel-You have ducked this question a few times.-Why do you not want the FREE HELP that people here so willingly give?

s There isn't one and likely won't be for a couple reasons...not the least being I am not technically proficient enough to record and upload. I don't hook my phone up to a computer which is only way I have ever managed to share a video, my attempts to record a swing have been...lets be generous and say very poor quality. To the point I looked at them a couple times and deleted them because they had no value. 

it is all good, this thread has helped me realize the vast inaccuracies in my approach and the limitations it puts on for potential improvement. Prior to the thread I would not have liked what I was seeing, now I understand it and am good with it so for me, personally, this has been a valuable thread just to help me adjust my expectations. I now have a much more reasonable expectation for my game and use it to my advantage.

Saturday went out and played a pretty soft course with a friend, one that is short. All day the things I adjusted worked as far as...zero fat shots on the day. By contrast, I was scattershot all over the course. Baby fade on 1. Dead pull on second shot. Dead pull on 2. Push on three. Both pull and block on 4. and so forth. And I shot a very mediocre 93. And with my new expectations, I was like, "this was a lot of fun." Prior to this thread I might have been frustrated.  So that is good.

And for what it is worth, prior to this thread I did order a Flightscope Mevo. If it has videos I can figure out how to upload, then I will post one. Or several. I am not averse to the help, I just don't have the skills I need to do the video. Yet. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by iacas
just one return between paragraphs please

[Phil McGleno]

25 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

s There isn't one and likely won't be for a couple reasons...not the least being I am not technically proficient enough to record and upload. I don't hook my phone up to a computer which is only way I have ever managed to share a video, my attempts to record a swing have been...lets be generous and say very poor quality. To the point I looked at them a couple times and deleted them because they had no value.

It is not hard to have someone film a video for you or to put your phone on a bench or a tripod or even lean it against something to record.-You can upload from your phone to YouTube.-If an old guy like me can figure it out so can you.

Thhese are excuses.-You have one of the best training aids in your pocket and you will not use it.-Instead you ask us if you should get a launch monitor. But you claim to be tehcnologically inept?

Does not add up.

25 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

I now have a much more reasonable expectation for my game and use it to my advantage.

Except you will not do the very simple thing of recording your swing so you can get free help and be actually able to measure or see your progress.

You are conning yourself-

25 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

And for what it is worth, prior to this thread I did order a Flightscope Mevo. If it has videos I can figure out how to upload, then I will post one. Or several. I am not averse to the help, I just don't have the skills I need to do the video. Yet. 

Oh my.

Which did you get-Mevo or Mevo+ - and why do you think you can use a Mevo but can't take a video and upload it to YouTube?

You are going about this all wrong-mate.

[darthweasel]

Been a while since I updated this. I completely overhauls my swing starting in November. Took a couple sessions to get used to how the mevo works. It has been a tremendous assistant. Also found a swing recording app that I could draw on. (Swing Profile)

Completely unsurprised to realize I was over the top but was surprised how badly. Did some research on that, figured out drill to help me drop the hands and work on sequencing. That is the step that became somewhat time consuming. Made significant change that resulted in move from often having spin axis 15-20r to something like 2-5L. Not always of course but more and more frequent and ball flight has moved much more towards draw. Hitting range 3-5 times a week was helpful for sure. 

Winter months were mild so I was able to get on course fairly regularly and certainly felt like I was playing better. Scores had some improvement and then there would be some regression which I chalked up to natural variance. It was not as if I felt like I was hitting the ball poorly..a weird bounce here or there, an atypical bunker adventure, etc. The one downside was I was working so much on my iron and wedge swing that, ignoring the 65-25-10 advice, I lost my driver swing to the point I did not bother taking it out of the bag.  Fortunately my improved swing was giving me better distance with even my 3h than I had been getting with my driver anyway.

That drove me nuts as I am a firm believer in the ideas that getting off the tee is vastly more important for scoring than bumping my 10' putt percentage by a point. Not being willing to take it out was definitely an inhibitor to my improvement despite not having lost distance.

Once I was confident in my irons went back to practicing all clubs, got my driver back in shape and now better than ever. Maintaining my iron, wedge and driver practice, did some extra chipping work and started noticing more and more frequent rounds that were low to mid 80s rather than low to mid 90s. Because a large number of them were out of season and a further grouping of rounds was not reportable due to being played as a single, it was not moving my handicap, but I was growing more and more confident and expecting to hit good shots but not getting off kilter when I did not. 

Recently had a run of, for me, pretty special golf including setting my PR by three strokes with a 76, having a second chance to break 80 but by my own admission having a rare choke (3-putting from I think 4'...I almost never do that, but let the "don't leave it short" horrific advice get in my head, shipped it 5' past like a munchkin), then have broken 80 twice more since, seeing my cap drop from 16.5 to 11.4 today since July 4th...that feels pretty good.,

Last night started bit rough and was 8 over through 8...but went one under over the last 10 holes, my first time breaking par for 9 holes at a non-executive course (done it twice at executive or sub-par courses). But my favorite part of it was...it wasn't a night where I felt like I was playing lights out. 

Starting hole 9, had a decent but below average drive, good but nothing special 3w, decent chip and nice putt for the birdie. 10, my 4i was in the shop so I took 3h off the tee, overdrove the fairway, rough, treeline, and was in the 18th fairway with tall trees in between but no low shot available. Went over them with a pulled wedge, good bunker shot to 3', nice par.  And so forth...no "amazing" shots, just average drives, couple decent chips, couple putts made but nothing that was like "oh wow, I can't believe I did that"...just hitting shots that I have been working on, having average shots and suddenly I have scored better than ever before on that nine and broken 80 on a day I didn't feel like I had it...

Overall I am quite pleased. I had to do the work in my practice style...I have done a ton of thinking about it and a lot comes back to when Matt was teaching me, one of the things he would often say is "don't worry about where the shot is going, just worry about doing x" and my brain just does not work that way. Brain science has shown that when the brain succeeds it adds insulation around that pathway, allowing it to transmit information faster and making you more likely to do that again...I didn't, don't, and won't train myself that a bad shot is good. But working where I could see what worked, groove that, figure out what I was doing, why, and now I understand my swing and, when it is not working, i know how to adjust it on course as I go, it makes so much more sense to me. I am now doing a lot of the things he tried to get me to do, but I had to get there in a way that made sense to me,

I have seen demonstrable improvement on all but putting on the strokes gained. Overall, back when this started it was -1.3 v. pro (which I left as pro because...well, don't know how to change it and don't care enough  to look) and now it stands at -.93. I am quite pleased with that improvement. 

Hilariously, when I shot the 76 I was randomly matched up with one of his new students, they old him about it. Had a good laugh about having my PR with a mutual student. 

And in conclusion, as I was walking off last night knowing I had broken par for 9 I realized...i am satisfied. I am past my physical prime, I enjoy playing okay but not great golf and I am happy if I can maintain where I am. I have no other goals. Now I can just enjoy the game and playing new courses, I have not set a new goal. But I did enjoy the journey...watching myself change ball flight, knowing how to change it, becoming much, much more consistent in striking and a narrower score window that is typically 10ish shots lower than a few months ago...

I know very well that I could be better if I did a couple things slightly different but I don't have the mental drive to "grind". Golf is recreation for me and if it ain't fun...and I don't find "grind" fun in anything...I have no interest in doing that. This is where I was trying to get here. A modest goal to be sure, but good enough for me. With all the time I spend on racquetball, tennis, guitar, and some card games with my friends, I don't really want to take the time to dial in tiny little details. 

Took a little longer than I thought it would but was worth it. I will spend a few years as a pedestrian golfer playing around 6300 and be happy. So this is a happy golf story for me.