Almost Always/Never

[iacas]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:20 PM, DaveP043 said:

Going back to the "always/never" idea, you can say that your relief area is NEVER two clublengths radius when taking free relief.

It's really late and I'm overly tired, but isn't the area for relief from a TIO one club length, and then you drop in the second club length? Which is dropping more than one club length away from where you achieve relief.

If I'm wrong, screw it, it's late. But I didn't think I'd remember this in the morning. 😉 

[DaveP043]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

It's really late and I'm overly tired, but isn't the area for relief from a TIO one club length, and then you drop in the second club length? Which is dropping more than one club length away from where you achieve relief.

If I'm wrong, screw it, it's late. But I didn't think I'd remember this in the morning. 😉 

That's an interesting thing.  Line of sight interference from a TIO is defined as existing when the TIO is within one CL of a direct line between the ball and the hole.  Therefore the Nearest Point of Complete Relief is on that far edge of the 1-CL "corridor", and the Relief Area is one CL from there.  So yes, you DO measure as much as 2 CL, but the relief area is just 1 CL.  

[Ty_Webb]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:01 AM, DaveP043 said:

That's an interesting thing.  Line of sight interference from a TIO is defined as existing when the TIO is within one CL of a direct line between the ball and the hole.  Therefore the Nearest Point of Complete Relief is on that far edge of the 1-CL "corridor", and the Relief Area is one CL from there.  So yes, you DO measure as much as 2 CL, but the relief area is just 1 CL.  

Right - I think on the basis that if you dropped in the first clublength you would not have taken full relief, you're right to say that you only have one clublength for your relief. It just starts further away than you might normally expect.

[DaveP043]

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Right - I think on the basis that if you dropped in the first clublength you would not have taken full relief, you're right to say that you only have one clublength for your relief. It just starts further away than you might normally expect.

To me these are interesting discussions, because as I've said, the more of these "always/never" things I find, the easier the Rules are to understand and remember.  In the spirit of finding exceptions, I'll ask:

When your ball is embedded, what is the only situation in which you are NOT allowed to substitute a different ball?

[Dick Kusleika]

7 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

When your ball is embedded, what is the only situation in which you are NOT allowed to substitute a different ball?

On the putting green? If your ball is not in the general area, you don't get relief, so technically you aren't allowed to substitute. But on the green, it says "replace the ball" so my guess is that's the exception.

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Dick Kusleika said:

On the putting green? If your ball is not in the general area, you don't get relief, so technically you aren't allowed to substitute. But on the green, it says "replace the ball" so my guess is that's the exception.

Exactly!  As you say, Rule 16.3 for Embedded Ball relief specifically says it doesn't apply on the Putting Green, but that you play under Rule 13 for Putting Green.  You may mark and lift THE ball, repair the damage, and replace THE ball.  I was quizzed about this by a much more experienced referee, a retired D-1 golf coach, but his wording was a little different.  I think he asked "When taking relief for an Embedded Ball....", and I argued with that wording.  If you're on the Putting Green, you're not taking relief, you're not operating under Rule 16.

This brings another thing to look for when trying to read and understand the Rules.  The word "the" is used to refer something specific, "a" refers to something else.  The distinction shows up when talking about THE putting Green, THE teeing area, THE ball, THE bunker, and I'm sure many more that I'm leaving out.