Can Putting Distance Control Be More Systematic?

[klineka]

12 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Maybe he only hits 4.5 greens per round. When he hits the green he averages 48 feet from the hole. 

The other 13.5 greens he misses, but chips them to 4 feet, and makes all of his 4 footers. 

Therefore his average distance to the hole would be [(4.5 greens)(48 feet) + (13.5 greens)(4 feet)] / 18 greens = 15 feet. 

His make percentage would be 13.5/18 x 100% = 75%

.... Maybe? .... 😁

I read @snapfade's statement to mean that his average 1st length putt is 15ft and he makes 75% of the 15 footers, not that he makes 75% of his first putts. 

If that was the case that is also quite impressive to make 75% of your first putts. You must have an extremely high scrambling %.

@snapfade out of curiosity, what is your handicap?

[snapfade]

Heres stats for 2024

0-3ft 94%

3-6ft 55%

6-9ft 58%

9-12ft 38%

12-18 50%

18-24ft 50%

24-30ft 50%

30  plus feet 11%

Im not sure where I saw the 75% for 15 ft, maybe I had it set on last 1 or 5 rounds. In any event most wind up short.

GHIN 12143979

17.2

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, snapfade said:

12-18 50%

18-24ft 50%

24-30ft 50%

All 1 for 2s?

😛

This appears to be a very small sample size.

[Clemsonfan]

On 2/27/2024 at 7:38 AM, iacas said:

Not sure where you got that one. It's around 90%. Last full season was 92.6% tour average from 4' on the PGA Tour stats (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/detail/342) (which is 3'1" to 4'0").

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/what-length-putt-is-a-gimme-amateur-golfers#:~:text=If we assume that a,81.6 percent from four feet.

This is an article from Golf Digest last year that stated tour pros made 81.6% from 4’.

If we assume that a gimme is a putt a player will make the vast majority of the time—in other words, a foregone conclusion—then let’s say a putt is “good” if a player would make it 90 percent of the time. As you can see, the tour average is 92.1 percent from three feet and 81.6 percent from four feet. So, broadly speaking, a gimme for a tour pro is anything inside three feet.

This is from Lou Stagner from May 2022. 

 

[snapfade]

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

All 1 for 2s?

😛

This appears to be a very small sample size.

What do you mean all 1 for 2's?

Its small because its for 2024. 

My handicap benchmark is set to 15. As of today I am +3.21 sg tee shots, -4,46 approaches, +0.06 short game, +1.59 putting.

 

[klineka]

42 minutes ago, snapfade said:

What do you mean all 1 for 2's?

That all those ones you are at 50% for were 1 make for 2 attempts on the season.

Since all of those make rates are significantly higher than PGA Tour rates.

[Ty_Webb]

12 hours ago, snapfade said:

Heres stats for 2024

0-3ft 94%

3-6ft 55%

6-9ft 58%

9-12ft 38%

12-18 50%

18-24ft 50%

24-30ft 50%

30  plus feet 11%

Im not sure where I saw the 75% for 15 ft, maybe I had it set on last 1 or 5 rounds. In any event most wind up short.

GHIN 12143979

17.2

Are these one putt percentages? Even if those three buckets between 12 and 30 feet are all 1 for 2, that's high. 3 for 6 from 12 to 30 feet is a serious outlier. The others could be:

15/16

6/11

7/12

5/13

1/2

1/2

1/2

1/9

67 putts total, which is probably 2 rounds? My rough shot at strokes gained for that lot would be:

-0.6 + -2.8 + 0.0 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.8 + 0.9 + 0.0 = -0.7 (PGA Tour baseline). Over two rounds that's pretty good and extremely good for a 15 index baseline. I'd think a 15 index would be expected to be somewhere in the -6 over two rounds. And that's with 3-6ft killing you.

[iacas]

14 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/what-length-putt-is-a-gimme-amateur-golfers#:~:text=If we assume that a,81.6 percent from four feet.

This is an article from Golf Digest last year that stated tour pros made 81.6% from 4’.

That's 4'0" to 4'11". They make > 86% of their actual four-footers.

The PGA Tour finally added a little thing, and their 4' mark is:

Quote

For all holes where putting distance was determined with a laser, the percent of putts made when the ball is greater than 3 feet and less than or equal to 4 feet from the hole. In order to be ranked, a minimum of ten attempts must be made. (342)

Their 5' mark is 82.11%, which aligns with what Lou said.

Quote

For all holes where putting distance was determined with a laser, the percent of putts made when the ball is greater than 4 feet and less than or equal to 5 feet from the hole. In order to be ranked, a minimum of ten attempts must be made. (343)

Even if you take that linearly, (92.6 + 82.11) / 2 = 87.4%. It's not quite linear, so actual PGA Tour make rate from 4' is almost 90%.

13 hours ago, snapfade said:

What do you mean all 1 for 2's?

One make in two attempts, yes. Because you're not 5 for 10 or something from all those distances.

13 hours ago, snapfade said:

My handicap benchmark is set to 15. As of today I am +3.21 sg tee shots, -4,46 approaches, +0.06 short game, +1.59 putting.

Then you either three-putt fairly frequently or something is off, because those don't add up, as @Ty_Webb explains.

I'm not sure you're really inputting the distances of putts accurately.

But anyway…

[Bucky1031]

Have u tried heads up putting?

sasho mackenzie has some good research into this.

anecdotally i have tried and use for anything over 8 feet, inside 8 i concentrate on line.

imagine you are throwing a paperball into trash can, you are NOT going to look at your hand…just sayin

[woodzie264]

9 hours ago, Bucky1031 said:

Have u tried heads up putting?

sasho mackenzie has some good research into this.

anecdotally i have tried and use for anything over 8 feet, inside 8 i concentrate on line.

imagine you are throwing a paperball into trash can, you are NOT going to look at your hand…just sayin

I get what you’re saying, but with your paper ball analogy, the ball is in your hand, it’s connected to your person….so there’s nothing happening at the interface between the ball and the hand. With putting, it isn’t connected and there’s a distinct moment of contact/interaction between the disconnected ball and your moving putter…not quite apples to apples 

[Clemsonfan]

9 hours ago, Bucky1031 said:

Have u tried heads up putting?

sasho mackenzie has some good research into this.

anecdotally i have tried and use for anything over 8 feet, inside 8 i concentrate on line.

imagine you are throwing a paperball into trash can, you are NOT going to look at your hand…just sayin

I tried it and did great in practice. On my first green in my second live round I stubbed my first putt from a side slope from 11! Stopped after that…

[ChetlovesMer]

11 hours ago, Bucky1031 said:

Have u tried heads up putting?

sasho mackenzie has some good research into this.

anecdotally i have tried and use for anything over 8 feet, inside 8 i concentrate on line.

imagine you are throwing a paperball into trash can, you are NOT going to look at your hand…just sayin

Hello @Bucky1031.

Welcome to the forum. 

I tried heads up putting way back in the late 90's. For me it seemed to help a bit at first, but then after the honeymoon period wore off, my putting slowly deteriorated. At least that's the way I remember it. 

I do recall, the person who talked me into trying it saying something like "When you shoot a free-throw in basketball you look at the rim not the ball. So, why do you look at the ball in putting?" ... or words to that effect. At the time it seemed logical.

Now that I'm older and wiser I look at it differently. Yes, if I was tossing or rolling the ball out of my hand into the hole I would look at the hole. But in this case I'm trying to apply the center of the putter face to the center of the back of the ball. So, my counter analogy is this; "You wouldn't try to hammer a nail while looking away from the nail." No, you'd look at the nail. If you think of your putter as a big hammer ("KA-POW") ...

Sorry, I don't know if you are aware but anytime you write the word Hammer in this forum you have to follow it up with BOOM! ... or KA-POW! ... or "BAM"! 👍😁👍

Anyway, it's good to have you contributing. Take care. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

I get what you’re saying, but with your paper ball analogy, the ball is in your hand, it’s connected to your person….so there’s nothing happening at the interface between the ball and the hand. With putting, it isn’t connected and there’s a distinct moment of contact/interaction between the disconnected ball and your moving putter…not quite apples to apples 

Hockey. Lacrosse.

[Bucky1031]

I went back and forth a few times, but ultimately committed to heads up. Occasionally ill look down for very long putts, 50 feet or so. 
bottom line, IMO speed trumps everything else in putting, and mine is much better HU. I do use a mallet putter which has a higher MOI which  helps.

if u have the Stack, it would interesting to see a comparison with the putting app.

As far as the hammer and nail…

nail=hole

hammer=putter😉
ball is just in the way

Edited February 29 by Bucky1031

[ChetlovesMer]

57 minutes ago, Bucky1031 said:

I went back and forth a few times, but ultimately committed to heads up. Occasionally ill look down for very long putts, 50 feet or so. 
bottom line, IMO speed trumps everything else in putting, and mine is much better HU. I do use a mallet putter which has a higher MOI which  helps.

if u have the Stack, it would interesting to see a comparison with the putting app.

As far as the hammer and nail…

nail=hole

hammer=putter😉
ball is just in the way

Hey, if it works for you great. 

I do use some heads up putting from time to time as part of my practice routine. 

hammer = "POOOOOOOWWW!!!!!!!!!" 

[Ty_Webb]

A serve in tennis is a better analogy I think. The ball is fairly static and you're hitting it with an implement of some description and if you don't hit it with the right part of the implement, it's not going to end well. 

I've tried heads up putting a few times. I think I'm backwards from most. I find it much more useful on the shorter ones than longer putts. I'm better at starting it on line and speed is less likely to be off using it. On longer putts where speed is more important, I apparently judge speed by watching (at least peripherally) my putter head. If I'm not looking at it, I lose speed control, even though that's the bit that is allegedly improved by heads up putting.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, Ty_Webb said:

I think I'm backwards from most. I find it much more useful on the shorter ones than longer putts. 

I seem to remember Jordan Spieth did this for a while. Not sure if he still does. 

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I seem to remember Jordan Spieth did this for a while. Not sure if he still does. 

I have a feeling that for a spell Woody Austin (who from memory may have led the Masters after the first round on about 14 occasions) was putting one-handed, while looking at the hole and pointing at the hole with his other hand. Golfers are crazy people.

To add - when I played with people I didn't play with often and was doing the heads up putting, it was always a few holes in that someone would say incredulously "wait - were you looking at the hole when you hit that?" Actually made me feel a little self conscious while doing it - in a "I wonder if they'll notice it this time" way

Edited February 29 by Ty_Webb