2024 Tour Championship

[Zeph]

What’s the statistic for the years they’ve been using this format where they start under par? How often does the leader end up winning?

[DavidBedwetter]

Well, however you feel about it, at least it was something to talk about.  Good on Scotty for getting it done this time.  I think Morikawa should have thought better of that fist pump on 8 after he birdied and Scheffler struggled with the shank.  Seemed to fire Scotty up as he birdied the next three holes.  He might have poked the bear there.

[turtleback]

No more pretentious than calling the British Open winner "The Champion Golfer of the Year".

[iacas]

6 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

So the Tour Championship winner isn't really the champion of anything except that particular tournament.  That's pretty much what I was saying.

It's a silly thing to say. Of course it's not, but over the years they've done more and more to add bonuses or whatever to try to give the season-long points guy a buffer or a lead.

You said "It's not like it is actually a tour championship."

What would that even look like? Please, construct for the PGA Tour a way to have a single tournament that is actually a "tour championship?" Bear in mind they've had a "Tour Championship" for a loooooong time now, pre-dating FedEx's investment.

6 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

Okay, Fedex threw a boatload of money at the Tour, so the Tour bent over backwards to accommodate them. 

The PGA Tour had a "Tour Championship" before FedEx.

[DavidBedwetter]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

It's a silly thing to say. Of course it's not, but over the years they've done more and more to add bonuses or whatever to try to give the season-long points guy a buffer or a lead.

You said "It's not like it is actually a tour championship."

What would that even look like? Please, construct for the PGA Tour a way to have a single tournament that is actually a "tour championship?" Bear in mind they've had a "Tour Championship" for a loooooong time now, pre-dating FedEx's investment.

The PGA Tour had a "Tour Championship" before FedEx.

Okay, I'll try not to be silly or make no sense this time. And thanks for those insightful observations, btw.  First of all, golf is and always was a game of individual tournaments.  It's futile to try to construct a playoff scenario to determine a "tour champion," a fact that the numerous adjustments to the current system will attest to.  

And yes, the Tour Championship has been around for years. But before the Fedex era, it was simply another tournament that happened to be named that way.  There was no effort to frame the winner as some kind of actual tour champion the way the playoff system does today.  It was just a cool sounding (albeit a bit pretentious) name like The Player's or the Master's that held no actual significance beyond the single tournament.  The difference now is that, yielding to the demands of a mega-money sponsor and preying upon the unwashed masses insatiable need to identify "the best," this current ridiculous system was put in place.

Of course, all of this is just my opinion, however silly it may be. Naturally, we all have the right to see the "playoffs" in whatever light we may choose, whether we view them as a trumped-up sham or a legitimate method of identifying a true Tour Champion like Bill Haas, Brandt Snedeker or Billy Horschel.

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DavidBedwetter said:

Okay, I'll try not to be silly or make no sense this time. And thanks for those insightful observations, btw. First of all, golf is and always was a game of individual tournaments.  It's futile to try to construct a playoff scenario to determine a "tour champion," a fact that the numerous adjustments to the current system will attest to.

And yes, the Tour Championship has been around for years. But before the Fedex era, it was simply another tournament that happened to be named that way.  There was no effort to frame the winner as some kind of actual tour champion the way the playoff system does today.  It was just a cool sounding (albeit a bit pretentious) name like The Player's or the Master's that held no actual significance beyond the single tournament.  The difference now is that, yielding to the demands of a mega-money sponsor and preying upon the unwashed masses insatiable need to identify "the best," this current ridiculous system was put in place.

Of course, all of this is just my opinion, however silly it may be. Naturally, we all have the right to see the "playoffs" in whatever light we may choose, whether we view them as a trumped-up sham or a legitimate method of identifying a true Tour Champion like Bill Haas, Brandt Snedeker or Billy Horschel.

See? You already knew why your post made no sense.

It's always been called the Tour Championship (as the final event of the year, with qualifying criteria to even get to play in it) and, over the years, it's become more and more about trying to award a season-long champion while not getting ridiculous (like the year Vijay just had to play four rounds).

The PGA Tour's job is to provide playing opportunities and money to their members, so I reject your idea of "preying upon the unwashed masses" as if you're some sort of ultra-smart viewer who sees through the charade, but I'm glad you have such a high opinion of yourself. 😄 Thank you for gracing us with your presence. We'll all learn so much from you as we've never considered the role of money and sponsorships in golf, not even with LIV throwing money around like it's Halloween candy.

[DavidBedwetter]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

See? You already knew why your post made no sense.

It's always been called the Tour Championship (as the final event of the year, with qualifying criteria to even get to play in it) and, over the years, it's become more and more about trying to award a season-long champion while not getting ridiculous (like the year Vijay just had to play four rounds).

The PGA Tour's job is to provide playing opportunities and money to their members, so I reject your idea of "preying upon the unwashed masses" as if you're some sort of ultra-smart viewer who sees through the charade, but I'm glad you have such a high opinion of yourself. 😄 Thank you for gracing us with your presence. We'll all learn so much from you as we've never considered the role of money and sponsorships in golf, not even with LIV throwing money around like it's Halloween candy.

I'm new to this site.  Do all differences of opinion result in personal attacks?

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, DavidBedwetter said:

I'm new to this site.  Do all differences of opinion result in personal attacks?

No personal attack there. You're the one going on about how we're all "unwashed masses" being deceived and how the Tour Championship is a sponsor-driven name and shit.

Do you think that you are the only one who gets to have an opinion? 😀

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I think you'll find that we don't take this stuff too seriously here — it's just golf and a difference of opinion makes for more actual discussion. But we also don't generally come with half-baked stuff, and we certainly don't choose to die on the hills of our half-baked hot takes. Nobody really knows anyone (though many of us have met in person, roomed together, golfed together, etc.), and so nobody really judges anyone here by much. But, oddly, it's often the new people who form the most judgments, despite knowing very little of the history here, the players, the personalities, the opinions, etc.

Also, we generally don't care for meta discussions here and like to keep things on topic. So… that's about all of that.

[DavidBedwetter]

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

No personal attack there. You're the one going on about how we're all "unwashed masses" being deceived and how the Tour Championship is a sponsor-driven name and shit.

Do you think that you are the only one who gets to have an opinion? 😀

---

I think you'll find that we don't take this stuff too seriously here — it's just golf and a difference of opinion makes for more actual discussion. But we also don't generally come with half-baked stuff, and we certainly don't choose to die on the hills of our half-baked hot takes. Nobody really knows anyone (though many of us have met in person, roomed together, golfed together, etc.), and so nobody really judges anyone here by much. But, oddly, it's often the new people who form the most judgments, despite knowing very little of the history here, the players, the personalities, the opinions, etc.

Also, we generally don't care for meta discussions here and like to keep things on topic. So… that's about all of that.

So far in this thread my opinions have been called silly and non-nonsensical and I have been told that I have an inflated opinion of myself.  I would argue that these are totally unprovoked personal attacks.  By you, I might add.  On the other hand, you have taken a generalized statement I made about the unwashed masses and chosen to take it personally.  You are correct.  I don't know you and you don't know me.  But I think it would be pretty obvious to an unbiased third party just who is taking this stuff way too seriously.

[iacas]

Despite pointing out that we don't really like to have these meta discussions, I see you've taken it upon yourself to continue. Hmmmm.

2 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

So far in this thread my opinions have been called silly and non-nonsensical

Yep, those are my opinions of your opinions. I'm not commenting on you personally. I'm not calling you names, or making disparaging remarks about your intelligence, your looks, your world view as a whole, etc. I'm commenting on what you've said here. If you're personally attached to someone else's disagreement with your opinion on things, that's you taking it personally, that's not me being "personal."

2 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

I have been told that I have an inflated opinion of myself.

No, I said "I'm glad you have such a high opinion of yourself." I didn't say "inflated," nor did I say it was a bad thing to think highly of oneself.

I'm not gonna defend your misreading of things I say.

2 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

I would argue that these are totally unprovoked personal attacks.

The second thing isn't an attack and the first isn't personal.

2 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

On the other hand, you have taken a generalized statement I made about the unwashed masses and chosen to take it personally.

I didn't take it personally. Not even a little bit. Sorry.

2 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

But I think it would be pretty obvious to an unbiased third party just who is taking this stuff way too seriously.

They wouldn't say it's me.

Let's try this again: Also, we generally don't care for meta discussions here and like to keep things on topic. So… that's about all of that.

[Vinsk]

Romine: It's time for PGA Tour to get rid of its Net Tour Championship

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If the Tour wants people to take its FedExCup finale more seriously, then it must get rid of its Net Tour...

Here’s a decent read on the format and some opinions.

[turtleback]

4 hours ago, DavidBedwetter said:

So far in this thread my opinions have been called silly and non-nonsensical and I have been told that I have an inflated opinion of myself.  I would argue that these are totally unprovoked personal attacks.  By you, I might add.  On the other hand, you have taken a generalized statement I made about the unwashed masses and chosen to take it personally.  You are correct.  I don't know you and you don't know me.  But I think it would be pretty obvious to an unbiased third party just who is taking this stuff way too seriously.

 

So, insulting wholesale is OK, but insulting retail isn't?

In any case the point is that the winner of the Tour Championship is the Tour Champion, the winner of the Players is the Players Champion, the winner of the PGA is the PGA Champion, and the winner of the British Open is the Champion Golfer of the Year. So what?

If you want to see who the best was for the year you look to the 2 Players of the Year, not to any one tournament or what the winner of that tournament is called.