Taking Drop Beside a Path, Under a Small Bush

[jfrain2004]

I was out at the wknd on a course that I had never played before in a society.

My tee shot came to rest between line of golden furz bushes and cart path.  I looked at the lie and figured I could advance this ball nicely down the fairway.  It wasnt the bush that was bothering me but the cart path. Playing partners were high handicappers ( I'll explain why this was relevant ) and only issue they saw was the bush, not the fact that my ball was about 12" from the edge of the path right along the OOB line.  They could not see how a concrete path that was almost 1ft in front of my ball could be deemed to be interfering with my swing.  I have spent lot of time and money to get my swing where I am coming down on the ball with -3 or -4 Deg angle of attack and bottoming out maybe 4 to 5" in front of the ball.   My club was most definitely going to catch the path.  The two guys I was with couldnt grasp this and said any relief I get would be from the bush ( 1 drop shot ) and not free relief from the path which because if they were hitting it then they would have no issue with the path. ie High handicappers only see whats behind the ball,  not whats in front of it.   Ask a scratch golfer to hit a ball 3" infront of a concrete path.  Easy,  just hit it cause they are not concerned with whats behind the ball as they will be striking a descending blow.  High handicapper on the other hand is going to be coming down in most cases a few inches behind the ball and will be put off by the path behind the ball.  I just punched it out from where it was as didnt want to upset any one.  So in short what would you have done.  ?

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, jfrain2004 said:

I was out at the wknd on a course that I had never played before in a society.

My tee shot came to rest between line of golden furz bushes and cart path.  I looked at the lie and figured I could advance this ball nicely down the fairway.  It wasnt the bush that was bothering me but the cart path. Playing partners were high handicappers ( I'll explain why this was relevant ) and only issue they saw was the bush, not the fact that my ball was about 12" from the edge of the path right along the OOB line.  They could not see how a concrete path that was almost 1ft in front of my ball could be deemed to be interfering with my swing.  I have spent lot of time and money to get my swing where I am coming down on the ball with -3 or -4 Deg angle of attack and bottoming out maybe 4 to 5" in front of the ball.   My club was most definitely going to catch the path.  The two guys I was with couldnt grasp this and said any relief I get would be from the bush ( 1 drop shot ) and not free relief from the path which because if they were hitting it then they would have no issue with the path. ie High handicappers only see whats behind the ball,  not whats in front of it.   Ask a scratch golfer to hit a ball 3" infront of a concrete path.  Easy,  just hit it cause they are not concerned with whats behind the ball as they will be striking a descending blow.  High handicapper on the other hand is going to be coming down in most cases a few inches behind the ball and will be put off by the path behind the ball.  I just punched it out from where it was as didnt want to upset any one.  So in short what would you have done.  ?

I'd have taken relief, probably.  You decide what interference is, they don't.  Unless you're in a competition, and an official can help make sure you get it right.  Or you might play two balls, under Rule 20.1c(3), if you're in a competition and want to be certain you get it right.  Of course, your Nearest Point of Complete Relief and Relief Area might have been further into the bush, in which case I'd have played it as it was.

[iacas]

I'm going to push back a little bit, assuming:

• The cart path is actually 12"+ away from you
• It's at ground level, not elevated
• You were hitting a 6I or shorter.

I hit some shots with a towel here and my club didn't contact the towel here 12" in front of my ball position. It's slightly elevated above the mat. I hit on average 4-5° down. Ten swings, didn't hit the towel once. All a 6I.

It's right on the edge of what I'd likely consider relief. I'd probably grant it in a tournament, were I a rules official, but… I don't know that I'd have taken relief myself if I was in that situation (and I'm a bit better than a 6).

It has to be reasonable that the path affects your lie, stance, or area of swing. I'd think you may have a better chance of your stance being slightly on the path than the clubhead hitting it.

But again, it's a grey area for me (this specific situation), and… it assumes the above bullet points are all true.

[DaveP043]

54 minutes ago, iacas said:

But again, it's a grey area for me (this specific situation), and… it assumes the above bullet points are all true.

I do agree with this, its pretty much impossible to make a definitive ruling based only on a typed description.  In addition to the factors listed, it would also depend on the intended line of play, whether it was more perpendicular to the path (interference more likely), or more parallel (less likely).  I based my initial response on the OPs claim that there was indeed interference.  But based on his description, my best guess is that his relief area would have been into the bushes.

[Rulesman]

2 hours ago, jfrain2004 said:

I was out at the wknd on a course that I had never played before in a society. I just punched it out from where it was as didnt want to upset any one.  So in short what would you have done.  ?

Not sure I'm picturing it correctly.

Was the path parallel to or perpendicular to the line of play?

How were the bushes orientated?

[jfrain2004]

Path was directly between ball and green. Nearest point of relief was  probably the other side of path as there was only a thin slip of ground between the path and oob (small bushes on all of it) all along which the path was interfering with my stance or swing. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, jfrain2004 said:

Path was directly between ball and green. Nearest point of relief was  probably the other side of path as there was only a thin slip of ground between the path and oob (small bushes on all of it) all along which the path was interfering with my stance or swing. 

I'm having trouble picturing this. Could you take a photo of the area with your ball near where it was, or draw a picture, or point us to Google Earth or something?

[Rulesman]

Some thing like this?

 

 

[saevel25]

The description is confusing. 

I agree it is a grey area for me.

Do you get a drop if you are worried about hitting the path? What is the definition of interference? Like, reasonably sure it will interfere or could interfere?

Can you purposely not take practice swings to confirm, so you can take the drop. 😉