Rolling 'em...

[Rickins]

Erik started a thread on "Mulligans". Now, how many of you roll the ball a couple of inches or, fluff it a little out of a deep lie?

I'll go first. Guilty. Pull it out of a divot onto a little tuft of grass? Yep. Roll it to get the grass away from the "leading edge". Done it.

Sorry, no "foot wedges". An unplayable lie is exactly that. Funny where we draw the line on "cheating".

Rick

[shakespeare]

I do roll it out of a divot. That's it; I don't do the other stuff you mentioned. I don't roll it out of a divot in a tournament or money game, but I do roll it out of a divot on a regular keeping-score round. It is "cheating," but I guess I feel like, "Hell, I hit the fairway where I am supposed to. Why am I supposed to be penalized for doing that?" I guess if I ever make the PGA Tour, I won't be able to do that, but with my 9 handicap, that ain't happening anytime in my lifetime. Maybe I'll come back reincarnated as Tiger Woods. Then I would have to fix it.

[shakespeare]

Yeah. By the way, I am up to a 9 handicap now. I'm a teacher, so during the summer my handicap drops. After I return to the classroom, I can't play six rounds a week, so my handicap rizes like the temperature in a Texas August.

[Saint_Viper]

Play every shot where it lies.

Even if nobody spotted me, i would just feel like i was cheating myself.

[who00knows]

The way I have read the rule book says you can move the ball if it lies in its OWN divot. I do that. I try to follow the books pretty fairly.

[Rickins]

  shakespeare said:

It is "cheating," but I guess I feel like, "Hell, I hit the fairway where I am supposed to. Why am I supposed to be penalized for doing that?"

Frankly, I agree. And, so everyone understands, I'm talking about a couple of inches, tops.

We all take the game "seriously" though that may differ by degree. A guy who "never" takes mulligans also fails to call a penalty on himself when he moves a leaf or twig that causes his ball to jiggle. Oops... (Hell, this time of the year in Michigan, you'd be lucky to find your ball for all of leaves on the course. And I'm talking about the fairway! ) How about a "Scramble"? Ever put your ball in the first guy's divot or, do you give yourself a bit of a "preferred lie"? Relief from a cart path? "Yeah, that's about a club length...and now the tree's not in my way." It's not "life or death", folks. It's a game. Rick

[iacas]

  who00knows said:

The way I have read the rule book says you can move the ball if it lies in its OWN divot. I do that. I try to follow the books pretty fairly.

I don't think you can leave a ball in its own divot. If you're talking embedded ball (i.e. "pitch mark" and not "divot") then yeah, you're allowed relief in

closely mown areas only. And that almost never happens.

[iacas]

  Rickins said:

Frankly, I agree. And, so everyone understands, I'm talking about a couple of inches, tops.

That ain't golf. "Rub of the green" means you can hit a terrible thinned shot that bounces off a rake and goes into the hole, or your ball can find a divot in the fairway. You deal with it and play the ball as it lies.

  Rickins said:

It's not "life or death", folks. It's a game.

Well, I've always figured that as soon as you break one rule, you've simply started down that slippery slope. Better to play by all of the rules all of the time. One less thing in life to worry about, the whole "did I play by the rules today?" bit.

If you're rolling your ball or taking mulligans, you may be hitting a golf ball on a golf course with a golf club, but it isn't golf you're playing.

[Rickins]

Well, Erik, I took your admonition to heart. Every shot today was played as it laid. Penalized myself three times for the ball moving when I moved a leaf - which there was no small shortage of. No mullies - which I wouldn't play when I'm with my wife anyway.

20+ mile-per-hour winds and, if I could get my hands around the throat of the ---hole that placed the pins, I'd be in jail right now. (Found out, at the turn, that they did it as a "prank" on one of their own employees. Holes cut on the lips of tiered greens, holes cut 2 1/2 feet past the "first cut" behind greenside bunkers, that sort of thing.) Four-putted five greens - one after sticking a drive on a par-3 less than ten feet from the hole. (First missed the cup and rolled off the green, second rolled up and back down, third hung but didn't drop...)

"Rolling 'em" wouldn't have changed a thing, quite honestly. Wouldn't have changed my score by a single stroke. I'm confident of that.

For whatever it's worth, I didn't "cheat".

"You might as well praise me for not robbing banks." Bobby Jones

Rick

[Pepe510tp]

There is only one time I will move a ball. If I am playing a round of golf and hit my ball in what is a normal part of the course and come accross a lie that should be marked as ground under repair. I am not going to damage my golf club just playing a normal round of golf...

Other then that. I never move the ball. I don't care if I can't even see it in the rough.. I'm gonna take a swing at it. I can always lay up hit a wedge close and make par!!!!

[LarryK]

  Rickins said:

Penalized myself three times for the ball moving when I moved a leaf. For whatever it's worth, I didn't "cheat".

Good for you (I guess). But did you really "move" the ball? According to Section II definitions in the USGA Rules of Golf,

"A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place." If the ball just jiggled and didn't leave its original position, I'd say you've got some strokes coming back to you (you didn't sign that scorecard yet, did you?) Speaking of rules, did anybody see Anika whining about line of sight relief from behind a scoreboard yesterday? I really don't know the rules all that well, but listening to the exchange, common sense told me the rules official was correct.

[LarryK]

  LarryK said:

Which leads me to ask another question of all the rules experts here. If a ball has to leave its position in other to have "moved", why can't I simply hold it in place with one hand while I move loose impediments from around it?

[Rickins]

  LarryK said:

Good for you (I guess). But did you really "move" the ball? According to Section II definitions in the USGA Rules of Golf, "A ball is deemed to have “moved’’ if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place."

What constitutes "any other place"? One ball moved about a quarter turn. No-brainer there. In my judgement, the other two "moved" as well. Perhaps no one else would have called it on themselves. I did and the score stands.

Let's see... Played the wrong Nike ball out of the rough for another two-stroke penalty (should have identified it but didn't), two water hazards and two unplayable lies for a total of nine penalty strokes on the round. Added to five four-putt greens and my 105 still looks pretty damned dismal. Anyway, to answer your question, Rule 18-2 states that you may not purposely touch a ball in play to remove loose impediments unless you're on the putting green. Paraphrasing a bit but, that's the gist of it. Rick

[Peter_in_Atl]

I hit em where they stop >99% of the time. I'll move it only if it's surrounded by rocks. I don't play money games and I'd rather not damage a club.

[bnlongdriver]

I'm a casual fluffer and roller now-a-days. I used to play it down all the time no matter what. But as I have gotten older and out of competitive golf, golf is just a fun way to spend a few hours away from the house. If fluffing an impossible lie keeps me from skulling one 2 holes over then yeah, i'll fluff it. I don't fluff everything just the stupid crazy one's ... don't want to take all the challenge out of it! My usual group plays roll em in the fairways. So i'm a cheater and have no issues with it at all. Everyone has their own agenda and idea of how they like to play. For me it's enjoying the day (not hearing Daddy, Daddy, Daddy a million times) and hitting a few good fluffed and rolled golf shots.

[Rickins]

  bnlongdriver said:

So i'm a cheater and have no issues with it at all. Everyone has their own agenda and idea of how they like to play. For me it's enjoying the day (not hearing Daddy, Daddy, Daddy a million times) and hitting a few good fluffed and rolled golf shots.

Congrats. You just made the "short list", bn.

(I'm beyond the "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy" point. Now, it's, "Hey, books are going to cost $360... just for my Psych course." (Heavy sigh...)) I'll play it as tight, or loose, as the round calls for. Wanna play it tight? Pepe and Peter better call an "unplayable lie" and penalize themselves. Wanna play it loose? Pepe and Peter get a freebie with no questions asked. I started this mess and have no issue with Erik calling me up on it. Cheating is cheating and, in whatever form it takes, it hurts the integrity of the game. We all like to think that we participate in a sport that's "above" other sports. We don't need "refs" or "umps". We're "honest". The fact is, a lot of us aren't. Whether you move a ball to "save a club" or fluff one in the rough to give yourself a chance at a high cut over the trees, it's an infraction. Just don't justify it by saying that you play by the Rules 99% of the time. You play by the Rules all of the time or, you don't. Plain and simple. Not "judging" a single person out here but let's cut the bullshit... Rick

[Peter_in_Atl]

  Rickins said:

Congrats. You just made the "short list", bn.

I guess the one time every dozen or so rounds I play makes me a cheater. BFD I like how you started this thread with your feet planted firmly on the ground."Guilty" It's a shame you ended up on a high horse. "let's cut the bullshit..." Not that I'm "judging" you or anything.

[iacas]

  Peter_in_Atl said:

I guess the one time every dozen or so rounds I play makes me a cheater. BFD

Let's just cut all of it and bring this particular discussion to a close. Y'all should be arguing about Michelle Wie now anyway.