Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[alf174]

You realize you don't know what you are talking about, right?

huh??? they're forged out of 1020 carbon steel

TGW's mistake then, they list them as cast. My bad for not double checking them.

http://www.tgw.com/customer/category...TabTableAnchor

[nokmond]

Offest has nothing to do with hitting a straight shot. It does however with hitting a high shot, so if you hit a low ball offset is good.

Taken from golf.about.com

Question: What is Offset, and Why are Some Clubs Designed With It? Answer: Offset is a design condition in clubheads in which the neck or hosel of the head is positioned in front of the face of the clubhead, so that the clubface appears to be set back a little from the neck of the club. (Put another way, offset is the distance that the forward side of the neck/hosel of the clubhead is set in front of the bottom of the face of the clubhead.) When a wood or ironhead is designed to have more offset, two game improvement factors automatically occur, each of which can help the golfer. First, the more offset, the farther the head's center of gravity is back from the shaft. And the farther the CG is back from the shaft, the higher the trajectory will be for any given loft on the face. In this case, more offset can help increase the height of the shot for golfers who have a difficult time getting the ball well up in the air to fly. Second, the more offset in the clubhead, the more time the golfer has on the downswing to rotate the face of the clubhead back around in order to arrive at impact closer to being square to the target line. In other words, offset can help a golfer come closer to squaring the face at impact because the clubface arrives at impact a split-second later than with a club that has no offset. Thus the second benefit of offset is to help reduce the amount the golfer may slice or fade the ball. Sorry i spoke

[mdvaldosta]

Even blades (most all that I know of) have alittle bit of offset.

[youngskip40]

Even blades (most all that I know of) have alittle bit of offset.

That could potentially set off a whole separate debate over what truly constitutes an iron as a "blade," vs. just a forged muscleback iron. "True" blades really don't have any offset, or it's so minimal that you cannot visually see it. I don't know if that has anything to do with why they call them "blades," but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Thaddy]

I dunno, i feel as if youre not at least a +2 handi that perfers to shape approach shots, youre giving yourself a 2 stroke penalty before you even tee off by using blades. Im not knockin anyone that does - suit yourself- but its just how i feel about it. If youre not a precise iron striker who needs to push the ball around, a cavity back is probably a better suit for most of us.

Why do you have to be a +2 to hit blades? Is this a secret club you have to qualify for? I'm an ~11 who can hit my MP-67's perfectly fine and straight as an arrow. Hell, I've been shooting better scores since getting them. They make me focus on my approach game much more and it's lead to more GIR's.

Handicap isn't the only determining factor, but I'm sure it's in the formula.

[wedge player]

That could potentially set off a whole separate debate over what truly constitutes an iron as a "blade," vs. just a forged muscleback iron. "True" blades really don't have any offset, or it's so minimal that you cannot visually see it. I don't know if that has anything to do with why they call them "blades," but I wouldn't be surprised.

even kzg zero offset blades have a little offset as do my nikes but they are at most like .2 mm iirc.

[bIGwIRE]

My views on this are simple 1. If you start out on blades once you get everything put togther you will be able to hit anything.

My point is I just don't see where the hole I need blades so I can be a good golfer started because its just not true.

Seems like you see this one from both sides of the fence...

blades today are easier to hit but a 15 to 20 obviously has some improvement areas in their game. If you toe or heel a blade you're going to lose half a club which is the difference of being on or off the green. That could easily add a minimum of one stroke to that hole.

I agree with you that playing blades aren't needed to get good at golf, but, like you just said, a mishit on a blade will incur a 1/2 club length penalty, while a GI iron may not even let you know you mis hit it. I think the more info/feedback a new player gets the faster he can improve.

My point is I just don't see where the hole I need blades so I can be a good golfer started because its just not true.

It didn't start with me, and I agree with you. My point is that people say "blades are for

only the most elite golfers"... and thats just not true.

My views on this are simple 1. If you start out on blades once you get everything put togther you will be able to hit anything.

^^ My entire point... completly agree.

Its like playing an instrument. If you learn a difficult one first, like say the piano, easier ones, like the guitar, will come so much easier.

[golfbarefoot]

very interesting article here..

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+w...y.html#more-18

[wedge player]

very interesting article here..

hmmm...that puts a new spin on things.

[wedge player]

very interesting article here..

I'm blaming that for my errant shots

[enduro]

Most people are going to hit both of them terribly, lol.

I think its apple to oranges. If you're a consistent player, CB's are going to play inconsistently for you. If you're an inconsistant player, CB's are going to play more consistent for you.

I use bladed wedges and CB irons. As for the club gets more loft I prefer the feel element more and when I need to hit bombs I would rather have forgiveness.

[Blades4me]

Why do you have to be a +2 to hit blades? Is this a secret club you have to qualify for? I'm an ~11 who can hit my MP-67's perfectly fine and straight as an arrow. Hell, I've been shooting better scores since getting them. They make me focus on my approach game much more and it's lead to more GIR's.

Damn, how refreshing to read. Way too many ppl have bought into "you can't hit blades/mbs if you are a high or mid hc. The OEM's have been brilliant in their marketing on this. And, of course if you think you can't do it then you most likely will not be able to do it. Considering how little the golfing public knows about clubs, theory and physics behind them and not willing to take the time to try and understand or study it, and or (perish the thought) practice/get lessons it is obvious that they will always suck.

I have 4 set of clubs, 3 of which are mb's and a combo set. When my swing goes south, which it does I will switch back to my combo set, (4-7 are cb and the rest mb's), but as soon as I feel the swing coming back the mb's go right back in the bag. When I really want to challenge myself I'll play my old set of Wilson 78 Staff Tour Blades and these babies are not at all forgiving, but when pured there is no better feel; sometimes I'll even put in the persimmon woods with them. The feeling is so good when hit well and that is what really helps keep me focused when playing them. Also many ppl don't realize how hard golf is. It is the hardest sport I've tried b/c its a lot of fine motor control and as such changes from day to day. Whereas in other sports, if you are willing to practice and work at it you can get pretty damn good in 2-3 years. Once you get the "feel" you know how to BS your way thru if you aren't quite "on" that day, I did this skiing, windsurfing, and tennis for years. The only way to do this in golf is to stick with the shot you know you can do, which is much easier said than done. By the time one is to the 7i, there really isn't that big a difference between a mb 7i and a cb 7i cuz the higher the loft the more forgiving the club. That starts at 7 or 8; which is why all combo sets change to mb at 7 or 8i. In the end one should play the clubs they are comfortable with. Just realize that the more forgiving the club the less of other things it will do, like work the ball, do a good punch or knock down shot, trap shot, come off of the frog hair around the green well or chip well.

[prutkows]

I've always thought my Titleist 690.CB's are players cavity backs (maybe i'm wrong) and when i bought them I was also considering buying the 690.MB's but just wasn't consistent enough with my ball striking at the time. Now I think I could move on to muscle backs/blades, but i don't see any reason to because I can shape shots pretty easily and never have a problem with the 690.CB's being "too forgiving"

[Thaddy]

Damn, how refreshing to read. Way too many ppl have bought into "you can't hit blades/mbs if you are a high or mid hc. The OEM's have been brilliant in their marketing on this. And, of course if you think you can't do it then you most likely will not be able to do it. Considering how little the golfing public knows about clubs, theory and physics behind them and not willing to take the time to try and understand or study it, and or (perish the thought) practice/get lessons it is obvious that they will always suck.

Honestly, I could care less about shaping shots. I was looking for a set of irons that gave me predictable results. When I strike the ball in the sweet spot I don't even have to look up, I know the ball is going where I aimed. 9 times out of 10 (if the wind isn't gusting!) that's exactly what happens. Sometimes I'll strike the ball a bit thin or towards the toe, and I know immediately because the feedback I get from these clubs is excellent. To someone like me, it's almost like I'm holding an instructor in my hands. Thin shot? "You picked your head up a bit on that last one, let's keep it down". GI irons, while easy to hit, make good and bad shots feel the same. How do you improve with that feedback?

I believe that most mid-cappers are a few small improvements away from being a single digit handicap. I used to hit my irons inconsistently, get into trouble off the tee with my driver, and miss a few bonehead putts. I still get into trouble off the tee and miss putts I shouldn't, but now my iron shots are dead on. Blades aren't as hard to hit as you think, give them a try

[youngskip40]

Damn, how refreshing to read. Way too many ppl have bought into "you can't hit blades/mbs if you are a high or mid hc. The OEM's have been brilliant in their marketing on this.

I don't know if this is a marketing ploy... my guess would be that the Manufacturer's would want to sell as many clubs as they can, they probably don't care too much about whether you buy a CB or a MB club.

The only reason they might make that distinction/recommendation is that maybe they agree that [for the most part] typically a mid-high handicap golfer should be playing their GI model instead of their "players" model. Then they get the word of mouth of that player who says "man, I just switched to the new X-100 Burning Zinger irons, and I am shooting lower scores/hitting better shots/hitting it further then ever before!" That kind of hearsay probably moves more clubs than "I'm scoring the same, but look how cool my new irons look!" That said, I do think there's too much of a stigma that blades are impossible to hit and they terrify some average golfers when they really shouldn't. Do I think there are some people that might be better off playing a more forgiving club? Yeah, but you've got to play what you like to play.

[UP&DOWN]

I have been wondering about this for some time. I have been playing some GI irons for a few years now and at first there were a few shots here and there that probably benefited from the technology but this year and last fall I have noticed no benefit to my game.

I am now getting to the driving range once a week and at least one round in and my handicap seems to be dropping evey other week. I even shot into the 70's twice in the past month.

It seems nearly impossible for me to hit a controlled draw or fade at the range with my current set.

The blades and players irons have always looked better to my eye at setup.

I think this winter I may shop for a players iron.

[enduro]

GI irons, while easy to hit, make good and bad shots feel the same. How do you improve with that feedback?

Use the ultimate feedback: the ball.

You know how the ball flight should look, etc and you can obviously see this. Also, I'm not sure which GI irons you've used but it's easy to tell how the ball came off with mine. Solid hits have a certain impact sounds and a solid feeling. As you get outside it still feels solid but doesn't have the exact same sound and it isn't as solid. I think it's a myth you don't get feedback from GI irons. I know when I didn't hit it square based on ball flight, sound and feel and what I need to do to correct it. Only I'm not penalized with a terrible shot because of it. I like blades for this toplines and thin soles (switching to GI's form old blades...it's weird to look at my clubs!), but its hard to deny the game improvement capabilities of GI irons and why they are probably best for most players. I'll give blades this: they look a lot better at address and don't feel as clunky. I can agree with the argument that GI's get in the way due to their larger profile and general chunkiness. And it's harder to draw and fade since the club really just wants to go straight. But as for feedback, I don't notice any difference really. Just that GI's don't penalize you for it.

[Thaddy]

Use the ultimate feedback: the ball.

The ball? What about the thing I'm holding in my hands? Ball flight is a good indicator, but unless I can see my swing speed, launch angle, spin rate etc., I'm more inclined to believe what the club is telling me, not the ball.

I'm not saying GI irons provide NO feedback, but it's less than what you would receive from a muscle back iron or blade. I went from hitting Ping G2's to Mizuno MP-67's, the difference was quite apparent. I will admit that I did go from one extreme to the other, and I can imagine newer GI style irons providing much more feedback than my G2's.