Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[adig]

b: your iron trajectory is too high, and blades bent a degree or two strong with the proper shaft is the best way to help this.

Whats the best way to get blades bent a degree or two?

[sean_miller]

Whats the best way to get blades bent a degree or two?

Ask at any golf shop that has "lofts and lies" listed in their pricelist.

[JaY_B]

I am currently looking for a new set of irons as believe it or not my Hogans are startin to wear a bit on the sweet spot.

Now my question is, as someone who has never had bladed long irons before, exactly how much forgiveness are you losing when compared to a players cavity back (for arguments sake, imagine the Callaway X Prototype compared to the X Forged) and how does this relate to the ball flight?

I am a good ball striker, but also realistic enough to know that blades could cost me shots.

It's also worth noting that I love to shape the ball... fade, draw, high, low etc etc... how much easier will it be to do this with say an mp 68 4 iron when compared to my apex ftx 4 iron?

Again I know this all sounds quite ill informed of me but I just want some opinions from the guys who use full sets of blades.

Cheers in advance

[James_Black]

did you look at the big thread we have about blades?
I think you'll find all you'll need there

[senorchipotle]

YES... of course, i learned how to play using blades and haven't played anything else, so i can't properly say without a biased opinion. i've tried to hit friends' cavity backs and forgiveness clubs and always end up chunking them cause they're so damn clunky. i like the feel of the shot more than anything. a properly struck shot feels really nice coming off a muscleback. as far as long irons go, i think they've got a bad rap. if you treat them like a shor iron, you'll hit them just as well. it's the same swing, just stand an an inch or two back. but all in all, they are more responsive and easier to shape, and depending on the set, there's not much forgiveness.

[JaY_B]

did you look at the big thread we have about blades?

Cheers for reminding me im having a read through it all now.

It all seems a bit yeh blades arnt hard to hit at all or blades are to hard for anybody to hit, ever. period. I'm looking for direct comparisions between the workablity and forgiveness benifits of blades and cavity backs in the long irons, which isnt covered as such in that thread (unless I havnt got to that page yet :-p )

[James_Black]

Cheers for reminding me im having a read through it all now.

a lot of pro's carry CB's for long irons 4i+ so I guess there must be a problem there.

[KevinC]

I have Callaway X-22 Irons. I don't have any problem with the sweet spot getting worn. But the heal it just about done!
My brother took some out for a test and told me that if you hit them right they are great but if you miss hit the ball at all the ball will go where ever it wants.

Kevin

[rebby]

a lot of pro's carry CB's for long irons 4i+ so I guess there must be a problem there.

I don't know that I'd say that. It's about a lot more than "blades are too hard to hit in a 3 iron, even for the pros." For me, I have a full set of muscle back irons, not because I'm "better than the pros" but because I prefer the trajectory that I get from the muscleback. Hitting a CB 3-iron has pretty high trajectory for me which makes it difficult to control, especially in the wind. The is no "problem" with blades in the long irons any more than there is a "problem" with them in the short irons.

Getting back on topic, I find working the ball w/a muscleback to be easier than it is with a cavity back. I find that my changes in set up, hand action, etc are more subtle with my SB-1's than my i3's when I'm trying to shape the ball flight. I also have an easier time altering the trajectory. With the i3's my trajectory choices were high, really high and not quite as high. I have much more range and a easier time getting the ball flight down w/a muscleback iron. If you're a good ball striker and love to manipulate ball flight, like I do, I think that you'll find a quality muscleback is as additive as a low cost street drug w/no ill side affects.

[sean_miller]

Cheers for reminding me im having a read through it all now.

If you're comparing a players CB to a quasi-blade, I can't see that there'd be much difference. Distance control may be better with the CBs though - a godsend on long par 3s - but you can likely keep a blade(ish) iron lower.

Demo a few 3-irons - they should be easy to find, otherwise good players are chucking them in the trash all over world.

[rebby]

...Distance control may be better with the CBs though - a godsend on long par 3s - but you can likely keep a blade(ish) iron lower...

I find distance control to be easier with a blade than with a cavity back. After all, it's easy to control distance via trajectory and it's far easier to control the trajectory of a muscleback than it is with a cavity back.

[sean_miller]

I find distance control to be easier with a blade than with a cavity back. After all, it's easy to control distance via trajectory and it's far easier to control the trajectory of a muscleback than it is with a cavity back.

I'm not talking about dialing in distance, or losing distance on shots off the toe or the heel, I'm talking about not flying the green on pured shots (as rare as those are).

When my irons swing is firing on all cylinders, I tend to fly greens. I did it a lot less this past summer, but whenever I use my "buttery soft" old Mizunos it happens at least once in a round. I'd like to rid my game of those "WTF was that?" shots. I think players cavities might do that. I'm too cheap to test the theory.

[JaY_B]

So the degree of improved control is noticable?

Is the difference in forgiveness significant, or is a miss hit much of a muchness once you start getting down to blade/shallow cavity long irons?

[sean_miller]

So the degree of improved control is noticable?

I couldn't tell you about mishits compared to players cavity backs.

When reading some comments (in the thread which this topic will eventually be merged) about mishits with blades, I'm not familiar with the huge mishit distance losses for PW through 3-iron. A mishit on a blade 2-iron will be both unpleasant and short - maybe even sprayed. I always assumed all extremely low lofted irons were like that - cavity or not. The more I read the topics on this site, the more I'm convinced that if you're able to deliver the clubhead onto the ball at a reasonably consistent and precise angle, relative to the intended target line, you can hit any iron. The less built-in corrective actions the better. You're a 5ish handicap, so go for it. I wouldn't recommend a smallish muscleback to a brand new golfer any more than I'd recommend competitive squash to some who'd never held any type of stringed raquet, barrel racing to someone who'd never been on a horse, short track speedskating to someone who'd never even been on beginner ice skates, or mountain biking to Banff to someone who routinely fell off a tricycle. You have to be realistic - some people do these sports every day - they don't need training wheels either.

[Par Fore]

I've played both.....I prefer blades.....I get immediate feedback and a well struck shot feels like butta

I'd say the sweet spot is about the size of a quarter....outside of that, you know immedaitely if you hit it a little inside, thin, or towards the toe.....imho, it is easier to shape the ball with blades, and with my wayward drives, this is a must, LOL.....I haven't hit cavity backs in at least 3 years and they simply do not fit my eye.....I will admit they are more forgiving and blades likely cost me 5 strokes a side early in the season....

Blade, well struck 8 iron goes 155 yards, struck just outside of the sweet spot 145 yards, struck close to the heel or toe 130 yards.....gaps are more in the long irons....
Cavity, well struck 8 goes 155 yards, just outside of the bigger sweet spot is 150 yards, real close to the heel or toe is 140 yards....long irons easier to hit....

My two cents....if you aren't sure, go demo a few different blades, get used to the feel.....ultimately, they are still golf clubs and a well struck shot is a well struck shot....

[Blades4me]

Jay

IMO modern blades and players cb's are just about the same as far as forgiveness. For me its a little easier to work the ball with the blades, but that can back fire. They will probably reqire some range time to get to know them. As you can see from my screen name I am firmly in the blade camp. If you are at least a decent ball striker I don't think the blades will be that much of a stretch. And if you really want to test your abilities, get a set of blades pre 1980. My gamers are a old set of 1978 Wilson Staff Tour blades 1-pw and I play them all. These are true muscle back irons and when I 'm on I like them better than my Mizuno's, but they can be nasty also. When that happens I drop down 1 club and go to a 3/4 swing until things come back around. Everyone sez, "oh you will lose a lot of distance on mis hits"--BULL PUCKY, you do lose some distance, but nothing that can't dealt with; and if one doesn't have a short game I can see why they would be so concerned.

Here is what blades do better than cb's
better distance control
better trajectory control
a little easier to work the ball

If you want blades maybe go any buy a 4i and try it. Cuz if you can hit a 4i then you should be able to hit every iron w/o much problem. Personally I really like blades, I have low single digit hc friends who play cb's. So after you have the fundamentals down, its what you like and are comfortable with.

[James_Black]

Blades4me
There's only a couple of inches in distance control on "sweet spot" hits between CB's and Blades not much of a difference.

I think you should try the AP2's they're not blades but let you work the ball better.

[Shanks A Million]

I am a good ball striker, but also realistic enough to know that blades could cost me shots.

And this is the most important thing you can know at this point. Ego is the killer of golf scores. Blades are right for some, and wrong for others. The best reason to play blades would be that you hit your irons so high, they balloon, or spin back off the greens. I can't think of many people who worry about spinning a 3 iron back off the green.

Of the top 10 golfers in the world, #2, 4, 5, 6, and 10 use cavity backs. (5 and 6 on long irons only). #3 and 9 use a hybrid in place of a long iron. These guys have long abandoned ego in favor of money. They know the score means more than the sticks. So, when it comes time to make a decision, decide what's more imperative. If you take your 3 iron, and hit it pure 90% of the time, and it goes too high, then use a blade. If not, then consider cavity backs. There's no set limit, you can use a cavity 3 and 4, and blades the rest of the way.