Drive for show my butt!

[NM Golf]

Whatever!

[cmarkmyers]

After reading this thread I was curious as to how well the top 11 putters did this well compared to the top 11 in driving distance (stats from pgatour.com and I did 11 instead of 10 as there was a tie for 10th place in putting). As it turns out, there was not much of a difference. The top 11 putters averaged $2.63 MM while the top 11 drivers were at $2.41. I was surprised it was that close.

Then for even more s**ts and giggles I decide to check out driving accuracy (average $1.39 MM) and total driving ($1.07 MM).

So my little experiment to use a small sample of pro statistics to either refute or prove the “Drive for show, putt for dough” argument failed. But since I dug up the numbers I thought I would share.

edit - Also, since NM is taking a bit of heat, I will point out that he did say, "if you cannot consistantly put the ball in play and and be fairly long off the tee..." While Tiger did not hit many fairways he was certainly considered long. And hitting an 8 iron out of the rough is much easier than hitting a 4.

And if you go back to the statement "Drive for show, putt for dough" I think the dynamics of golf have changed quite a bit since someone first coined the phrase. Being in the rough is no longer the hole killer that it used to be, with todays well manacured courses that the pros and you low handicappers play (not me, at the dives I am willing to go to to embarass myself the fairways probably look like your first cuts).

[muskegman]

After reading this thread I was curious...

Good idea! Here's what I came up with:

TOP 10 IN GIR's/ Money List
Sergio Garcia / 10
Joe Durant / 73
Kenny Perry / 6
Vijay Singh / 2
Jeff Brehaut / 61
Tiger Woods / 1
Jim Furyk / 4
J.J. Henry / 87
Roland Thatcher / 173
Robert Allenby / 63
BOTTOM 10 IN GIR's
Jose Coceres / 182
Kevin Na / 67
Charlie Wi / 186
Mark O'Meara / 198
Mark Brooks / 180
Jason Allred / 204
Chris Riley / 184
John Elliott / 221
Rob Rashell / 219
Len Mattiace / 191
TOP IN PUTTING
Arjun Atwal / 82
Steve Stricker / 162
Ben Crane / 19
Bob Heintz / 171
Tim Clark / 21
Tiger Woods / 1
Aaron Baddeley / 78
Todd Fischer / 119
Scott Verplank / 16
Chris DiMarco / 7
BOTTOM IN PUTTING
Chris Riley / 184
Joe Durant / 73
Matt Davidson / 218
Sergio Garcia / 10
Mathias Gronberg / 160
D.J. Brigman / 177
Steve Jones / 212
Bradley Hughes / 220
Jim Carter / 216
Thomas Levet1 / 50
TOP DRIVING DISTANCE
Scott Hend / 170
Tiger Woods / 1
Brett Wetterich / 132
Scott Gutschewski / 149
John Daly / 42
Brenden Pappas / 178
Hank Kuehne / 104
Davis Love III / 13
Kenny Perry / 6
Sergio Garcia / 10
BOTTOM DRIVING DISTANCE
Brian Gay / 115
Brad Faxon / 45
Tom Byrum / 175
John Cook / 165
Fred Funk / 11
Loren Roberts / 93
Mark Brooks / 180
Gavin Coles / 169
Jeff Hart / 209
Corey Pavin / 108

[NM Golf]

From the look of those stats I might surmise that you drive and putt for show but hit greens in regulation for dough.

[kklick]

Those above stats show if sergio could put he'd probably be on top of the tour. top 10 in gir and driving distance and bottom of putting. He's still in the top 10 on the money list but if he could put he'd probably be right there with tiger.

On another note, we have a guy I work with that was a former club pro and scratch golfer. A few coworkers and I decided on a bet with him we all assumed to be fair. He could pick any 3 clubs and we would get all of ours. He took a 3 iron, 7 iron and a wedge. (putted with his 3 iron)

We played 18 holes. The course stats 6875 from the back tees. rating/slope 72.3/128

Well lets just say we got whipped. He shot 1 under on the front and 2 under on the back.

With that said good iron play can make up for alot of driving errors. That round really started making me think about my tee shots. I would usually just pull out driver and rip away and hope for the best. After that little display I decided a little more accuracy would be much more important than the extra yards.

[NCGolfer]

Those above stats show if sergio could put he'd probably be on top of the tour. top 10 in gir and driving distance and bottom of putting. He's still in the top 10 on the money list but if he could put he'd probably be right there with tiger.

Funny you should say that about Sergio . Thanks for the lead-in.

[kklick]

Funny you should say that about

haha great article. Pretty much sums it up. sergio starts putting well sergio starts winning.

[jbgolfsmith]

Everyone has made valid points in this thread, and I've enjoyed reading it. I will side more with the importance on putting. Granted, I've always been able to drive the ball long...not always as straight as I'd like, but for the most part pretty solid. And I can't tell you how many times I've knocked it out there 310 in the fairway with 90 or 100 yards out, pitch it on the green and then 3 putt. There is nothing more frustrating on the golf course, to me at least, than to hit the ball 400 plus yards in 2 shots, and then proceed to take an additional 3 shots to hit it 20 feet.

My best round of golf came on a day that the course I was playing on had just airated the fairways. I was driving the ball terribly, missing most every fairway, but played 18 holes with only 22 putts resulting in a 6 under 66. It was the best feeling in my golfing career. You can save so many shots by making 25 footers....it's almost like you cheated the hole after you've drained a putt like that....and on that day, I made 6 putts from outside 25 feet.

Most of my rounds are in the middle somewhere, but in my game, I certainly drive for show and putt for dough.

As for women not being able to play with men....there's no doubt that the majority of women golfers are shorter than the average man off the tee, but one girl I grew up with in school beat me on a consistant basis in high school and college....and it wasn't the tee shot that I was lacking in, I'd knock it past her all the time.

Shoot, we just saw the skins game a couple of weeks ago....who won that? Fred Funk, in a land slide....playing against Tiger and Freddie who are 60 yards longer than Funk and Anika, granted Anika didn't ever seem comfortable during the round....but Funk just putted better. It's a classic example....all 4 of them hit greens in regulation, the better putter wins 8 out of 10 times. I'd be curious to see a stat over the past 5 years of Tour players, regardless of what tour, and to take the winner of each tournament and see where they ranked for those 4 days in number of putts. I bet there's a strong correlation.

Driving's important, but not as much as putting.

[muskegman]

Everyone has made valid points in this thread, and I've enjoyed reading it. I will side more with the importance on putting. Granted, I've always been able to drive the ball long...not always as straight as I'd like, but for the most part pretty solid. And I can't tell you how many times I've knocked it out there 310 in the fairway with 90 or 100 yards out, pitch it on the green and then 3 putt. There is nothing more frustrating on the golf course, to me at least, than to hit the ball 400 plus yards in 2 shots, and then proceed to take an additional 3 shots to hit it 20 feet.

My best round of golf came on a day that the course I was playing on had just airated the fairways. I was driving the ball terribly, missing most every fairway, but played 18 holes with only 22 putts resulting in a 6 under 66. It was the best feeling in my golfing career. You can save so many shots by making 25 footers....it's almost like you cheated the hole after you've drained a putt like that....and on that day, I made 6 putts from outside 25 feet.

Most of my rounds are in the middle somewhere, but in my game, I certainly drive for show and putt for dough.

As for women not being able to play with men....there's no doubt that the majority of women golfers are shorter than the average man off the tee, but one girl I grew up with in school beat me on a consistant basis in high school and college....and it wasn't the tee shot that I was lacking in, I'd knock it past her all the time.

Shoot, we just saw the skins game a couple of weeks ago....who won that? Fred Funk, in a land slide....playing against Tiger and Freddie who are 60 yards longer than Funk and Anika, granted Anika didn't ever seem comfortable during the round....but Funk just putted better. It's a classic example....all 4 of them hit greens in regulation, the better putter wins 8 out of 10 times. I'd be curious to see a stat over the past 5 years of Tour players, regardless of what tour, and to take the winner of each tournament and see where they ranked for those 4 days in number of putts. I bet there's a strong correlation.

Driving's important, but not as much as putting.

Wow... great post jb. It is true that for the most part Tour players are hitting a lot of GIR's and so what they do on the putting surface makes a big difference. Putting and up and downs are pretty darned important.

[jbgolfsmith]

Thanks Jeff....

I think so many of us....and I'm guilty of it all the time....try to reach back for a little something extra off the tee because of our macho instinct, because we have to measure up to the next guy or we have to prove our manlyhood with our driver. We get in so much more trouble that way....sometimes it works out and we're sittin pretty in the fairway. But if you just swing smooth and focus on accuracy, you're left with a shot at the green. Even if you miss the GIR, you're still most likely left with a relatively easy chip and putt.

If you can make 50% or better from 10 feet and in, I bet you take 4 or 5 strokes off of your game right now. If you add 20 more yards to your driver, what does that get you? You still have to hit your approach shot....and chip and/or putt however many times it takes us to get down.

Here's a picture for us all. You're sitting on the tee of a par 4. You knock your driver into the trees on the right side and only get 220 yards out of it. You hit a decent punch out of the trees up the fairway, you're left with 40 yards to the pin...then you hit an okay chip up and are left with 13 feet to the cup. If you make that putt, the previous 3 shots are forgotten because you got your par and that's all that matters.

I think this would be true for the most of us....our pars aren't always a pretty picture.....and which pars are you the most proud of? The ones where you hit it long down the fairway, make a decent approach and then two putt? Probably not because you're pissed at yourself for missing that birdie putt. Instead, if I've kicked it around on a hole for three shots and then sink a 12 or 16 footer to save myself, that's robbery, and I'm so proud of myself for hanging in there on a hole.

For a lot of us, we can't compare our games to Tour players. It was said earlier in the thread that if you drive the ball 225, it's pretty safe to say you don't belong on Tour....that's like saying a pitcher in baseball that throws 60 mph fastballs can't make it to the bigs. Our games are all relative to our talent level, and to those that are similarly skilled. So we have to approach things with this in mind.

It is true that you have a better chance at scoring well from further up the fairway, but you still have shots left to hit from there to get to the green....and things can and often do go wrong. But if you sink putts that you normally don't....that immediately takes shots off of the bottom line.

You just shot 80 for the first time in your life, and you're mad because you didn't shoot 79. What is the first shot you look back on? The drive you topped 160 yards up the fairway on 7, or the 3 footer you lipped out on 16? My bet is on the 3 footer.

You putt for dough.

[gripitandripit]

There's nothing more frustrating than shooting a 76 or 77 and make nothing on the greens. I've had too many rounds where I hit about 13 or 14 greens and make 0 or 1 birdie. Other rounds, I'll spray it all over the course, get up and down 8 times and shoot 77 or 78. There's no doubt in my mind that distance is overrated and chipping and putting is how you score.

[iacas]

I think this would be true for the most of us....our pars aren't always a pretty picture.....and which pars are you the most proud of? The ones where you hit it long down the fairway, make a decent approach and then two putt? Probably not because you're pissed at yourself for missing that birdie putt.

Quite honestly, I like the pars where I hit the fairway, hit the green, and two-putt. It shows that I had better planning and execution. I'm a bit more cerebral than some golfers, perhaps, but scrambling isn't something I really consider a success - I've probably screwed up somewhere in the past. I may catch a break or my putter may save me, but I'm more proud of the shots I planned and executed to the better end of my ability. If I'm in the trees off the tee, I've done something wrong. All of that being said, I don't really think about it that much. After all, when I make the putt on the green, it counts for the same number of strokes as the bad drive. And the bad drive, being in the past, is not something about which I care a whole lot. This is new for me, granted, with the Rotella mindset and the things I've picked up.

[jbgolfsmith]

Very true, I share the same feelings about a well struck drive, an approach and then a two putt....there's a good conventional par, and that feels good because that's how it's supposed to be done.

I'm not going to argue about that at all...I love those pars. But those scrambling pars make me feel great because I could have blown up and posted an ugly number. So getting off of a hole with a par after being in trouble is like gaining a second chance.

Maybe proud was the wrong choice of word.

[NCGolfer]

I love the rounds where I add up all the stats and I get to see around 10 fairways and 14 or more greens. That is a great day striking the ball. If I didn't score well it was because my putting let me down...and I had more than a few of those this year early on. That's why I focused on my putting stroke this year.

Proud probably was a bad choice of words, but I totally understand why you used it. I get the same feeling, and if I have to do it too often it means something in my game needs work. We all know this.

The best feeling I get on the golf course is hitting an approach shot close. To me, consistently hitting irons the right distance and direction is the most demanding thing on the golf course, requires the most skill and provides the most reward.

Just my opinion though...

[NM Golf]

I was watching the GC and they had Annika talking about the driver and she said the drive was important in that it sets the tone for the entire hole. I thought that was interesting because I have never thought of it that way, but it is true. If I hit the fairway with my drive it just starts the hole off well, my mindset goes to "alright lets make birdie". When I miss the fairway into a group of trees, my mindset goes to "lets save par".

Good driving is not entirely about distance but people don't think about that, they see driving = distance. Yes to compete at a high level you must be long enough to reach par 4s in two and without hitting 3 irons all the time. But you have to be able to put the ball in play. Someone said something about Fred Funk. Sure he is short in PGA standards but he is NOT short. He still has short to mid irons into the par 4's. He gives up a little distance for the accuracy and that works for him.

Even though it seems that EVERYBODY out there in golf land has a story about the day they "played really good without hitting the teeball" how often does that really happen? Probably about as often as when they hit the driver really good then have 36 putts. Both produce the same result for me 75 or 76. The only difference is how I feel after the round. To me it pisses me off to no end to have to constantly save par from the trees, I hate that. It leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. I personally would rather have a bad putting round. I like the drive down the middle, GIR, 2 putt pars. I leave the green with a satisfied feeling. The hit it behind the trees, pitch out, hit it on and make a 30 footer for par are okay but I leave the green unsatisfied that I had to make that long putt for par instead of having it for birdie.

I guess what I am saying is to me I think the driver is the key to my mindset during a round. It sets the tone. I just had not thought of it that way until I watched Annika. I am obviously the minority in my way of thinking, but that is alright. I do not downplay though the importance of putting, just its role in my mental game. Plus to me it seems if the drives are in the fairway the putts fall more often anyway.

[iacas]

On 12/11/2005 at 12:41 PM, NM Golf said:

If I hit the fairway with my drive it just starts the hole off well, my mindset goes to "alright lets make birdie".

I don't think that way at all, because a birdie is at least one shot further ahead than you should be thinking. You can only hit the next shot (whether it's an approach on a par 4 or a layup on a par 5). You can't be thinking about making the putt, and that's inherent in "let's make birdie."

Driving may set the "tone" for something, but it's just setting the tone for the next shot, not any ones after that.

On 12/11/2005 at 12:41 PM, NM Golf said:

Good driving is not entirely about distance but people don't think about that, they see driving = distance.

Let's not open that can of worms again, ok buddy? Just drop it.

[NM Golf]

I don't think that way at all, because a birdie is at least one shot further ahead than you should be thinking. You can only hit the next shot (whether it's an approach on a par 4 or a layup on a par 5). You can't be thinking about making the putt, and that's inherent in "let's make birdie."

Well OBVIOUSLY we don't think alike, but last time I checked that was within the rules RIGHT? And Obviously I am not your buddy either so don't tell me how I should be thinking on the golf course. Are you the know all end all of the golf world? Did I miss a memo? You are like the guy who gives you swing tips all the while your kicking his butt and taking his money. I will play my game you play yours but please don't give me advice I neither need nor asked for.

[Touredgegal]

What I learned is to drive the best I can, but back off about 10% on maximum effort and I usually end up in the fairway with drives of 270 or better. Most guys I play with try to muscle the ball and end up with disasterous shots off the tee way to often. I agree, it's the combination of everything but the short game must be GREAT as it accounts for 2/3rds or more of all your shots.