Chunking the ball

[bigwilly319]

I've heard that man amateurs chunk the ball (hit the ground behind the ball) more often than not. I tend to do the same every few shots. What are amateurs doing different and how does one overcome it?

W

[Righty to Lefty]

One of the main culprits to chunking and thinning balls once you are sure that you have your ball placement is correct ( to far back= chunk and too far forward= thin). Probably the factor that you might not even notice is that you unintentionally raising or lowering your body at impact. An important part of you body to be aware of is your sternum. When you set up to the golf ball properly your sternum is the lowest point of your swing always because it is your center. If your sternum moves up or down back or forward your low point of your swing moves in proportion. A slight (not a lean) forward movement with and iron is okay because that helps you catch the ball first then take your divot but movements up and down create disaster. If you move down you have moved the lowpoint of your swing below ball meaning that your club will strike the ground behind the ball because the low point of your swing has changed. The opposite happens if you raise your lowpoint you catch the ball as the clubhead is ascending and you have sucessfully skulled a ball over the green!!! To change it you have to become aware of why it is happening. I hope this helps.

[Scott_Tee]

Keep your balance, don't swing really hard. Concentrate on hitting the ball, and don't get hung up on the mechanics.

[Surefire]

An important part of you body to be aware of is your sternum. When you set up to the golf ball properly your sternum is the lowest point of your swing always because it is your center.

Would the lowest point of the swing be the shoulder of the lead arm? (ie left shoulder for a right hander)

I don't know about you but my arm moves around my shoulder joint, not my sternum!

[ks8829]

hitting heavy

1) using only arms and not your big muscles
2) swaying
3) hands not fully extended to the ground
4) ball placement
5) not rotating around your body

[barrycuda]

6. slowing down at impact instead of accelerating.

[Righty to Lefty]

Would the lowest point of the swing be the shoulder of the lead arm? (ie left shoulder for a right hander)

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If that were the case then you right shoulder would be the low point of the golf swing because doesn't it sit naturally below the left shoulder because for a right handed golfer the right hand grips the club below the left. And also you would hit a driver at the lowpoint in your swing which we all know that the driver is played off of your front foot or left shoulder to catch the ball with and ASCENDING strike. How can the club be ascending at the lowpoint of your supposed swing the left shoulder. You've got it all wrong surefire because the sternum located between your pecks is in the centerline of the body along with the spine. The golf swing does in no way move around your shoulder joint or you would fall on your face after every swing because place your center of balance near outside of your feet which means you have lost your balance. It moves around the spine that's why you hear pros talk about maintaining your spine angle through out the entire swing. Your sternum is directly in line with your spine and that is simple anatomy and physiology which was my major in college. You can see your sternum but you can't see your spine angle to know if it has changed during your swing without video. If your spine angle changes your sternum will move eqaually in the same direction. To prove my point, get into a bunker and dig your feet into the bunker 3 inches or so which has effectively lowered your sternum the same and made your swings lowpoint actually below the ball. Don't choke up on the club and don't manipulate the club, then try to hit the ball clean with a normal swing as if you were going to hit a ball off of the fairway. I promise that you will hit about 3 inches behind the ball which is good out of the bunker but not off the fairway. You have sucessfully simulated a chunk which is exactly what a bunker shot is. Alot of people made some good points but there are alot of things that I don't agree with such as concentrating on HITTING the ball. Trying to HIT the ball is what causes the body to tense up and chunk and thin balls. Yeah you should notice the ball but the ball simply gets in the way of the golf clubs path to the TARGET which is what should always be your focus. "Pros aren't trying to hit the ball, they are playing through the ball to the target(www.golfing-excellence.com)." If you simply shift your focus to the target it takes so much tension out of the swing and it feels effortless you even roll putts better. It should literally feel like a practice swing. You don't see many people lay sod over a practice swing do you? That is because they are not fixated on the ball so there is no associated muscle tension to create problems. Wouldn't it be great if you could make actual swings feel like your practice swings. Well quit focusing so hard on the ball because it not gonna move unless it gets blown off the tee. If you want to test me on this one it is a SUREFIRE way to get burned because I have studied this for about 8 years now and I am just getting started if you want to go into swing theory.

[NI4NI]

RightytoLefty,

Have you ever attended either a Roderick Fraser or other golf mind coach training session? If so, how was the before and after of your game? Sounds like a lot could be gained pursuing the mind over matter approach (especially as one gets older, and the mechanics start to fade).

How about other reference guides on this subject (mind coaching)?

[jambalaya]

hitting heavy

I am hitting a lot of fats these days. I found out I have been coming over the top as I proved on the range this weekend by doing a little drill. Will this contribute any to hitting fat? How does hands not fully extending the hands to ground cause fats? I thought it would be the opposite. I just have the feeling of running out of room as I come into the ball. This chunking is driving me crazy. I need help before I break a club.

[Surefire]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If that were the case then you right shoulder would be the low point of the golf swing because doesn't it sit naturally below the left shoulder because for a right handed golfer the right hand grips the club below the left. And also you would hit a driver at the lowpoint in your swing which we all know that the driver is played off of your front foot or left shoulder to catch the ball with and ASCENDING strike. How can the club be ascending at the lowpoint of your supposed swing the left shoulder. You've got it all wrong surefire because the sternum located between your pecks is in the centerline of the body along with the spine. The golf swing does in no way move around your shoulder joint or you would fall on your face after every swing because place your center of balance near outside of your feet which means you have lost your balance. It moves around the spine that's why you hear pros talk about maintaining your spine angle through out the entire swing. Your sternum is directly in line with your spine and that is simple anatomy and physiology which was my major in college. You can see your sternum but you can't see your spine angle to know if it has changed during your swing without video. If your spine angle changes your sternum will move eqaually in the same direction.

I don't get what you are trying to prove, if your spine angle changes, yes your sternum moves, but so does your lead shoulder, and quite a few other things. If the sternum is the low point of your swing, for every club in your bag you'd be hitting the ground before the ball, unless you play the ball back in the stance for every shot. You rotate around the spine, but the low point of the swing is the armpit of the lead shoulder. Hence a driver, with the ball just off the shoulder has a very slight upswing as it is caught, and a wedge in the middle of your stance has the divot occurring after the ball. P.S. No need to get personal with your remarks.

[Surefire]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If that were the case then you right shoulder would be the low point of the golf swing because doesn't it sit naturally below the left shoulder because for a right handed golfer the right hand grips the club below the left.

Forgot to respond to this point.

No the right shoulder wouldn't be the low point - for a right hander This is because before impact the lead arm is always more extended than trailing arm, and the lead arm moves around the lead shoulder, not the trailing shoulder, which would be the right shoulder for a right hander. Excuse me if the terminology is wrong, I did not study biomechanics, I just know a bit about what the body looks like and how it moves.

[o9z1]

When I hit a fat short it is normally taking too big of a backswing with a wedge and decellerating through impact. If I actually swing through with consistent speed/tempo, I usually will hit a clean shot.

[Righty to Lefty]

Have you ever attended either a Roderick Fraser or other golf mind coach training session? If so, how was the before and after of your game? Sounds like a lot could be gained pursuing the mind over matter approach (especially as one gets older, and the mechanics start to fade).

I have never attended one of their training sessions but I have done a lot of reading and alot of my own research on my own and I have become simply facinated with the golf swing. I am a firm believer that one of the most important things in golf is to learn to breathe correctly and relax yourself before you swing the club and place your focus on the target which is not necessarily the pin but where you want the ball to land. I switched from right hand to left hand about 3 months ago and my handicap is high for the moment but I have shot 91 already and expect to be in the 80's very soon. I played to a 12 handicap right handed after 9 months. But the lessons that I learned have been so valuable because I noticed things that most golfers never will who only play from one side. Muscle imbalances create huge problems for golfers who play from only one side because one side becomes strong while the other becomes flexible. Have you ever looked at a tennis players forearm that doesn't hold the racket. It looks atrified compared to the one that gets work but they get away with it because their sport doesn't require both hands to be equal in strength. You have to train to offset this imbalance if you want to realize your potential whatever it is. I take a hybrid to the range once a week and hit about 200 balls right handed to help with this and I double my ab work on that side to help combat it. I pay attention to my body during my golf training because it will tell you all you need to know. If you feel a bunch of tension in your neck and shoulders after a round you are tensing up at impact likely because you are fixated on the ball and you need to shift your focus to the targetl. You are whichever hand you are because those muscles are dominant and more coordinated than your other hand. Most pro's can excute a descent swing from non dominant hand because they likely do training to offset natural muscle asymmetry while most ametuers look like they are having a seizure if you asked them to swing with the opposite hand. Muscle asymmetry causes a bunch of problems such as the obliques (abs that run down your side and attach to your hip). One will pull up harder on your dominant side even at rest in effect making one leg slightly longer than the other even at rest. The next problem that happens is the knees receive undue pressure, next the lower back is thrown off, then right on up to the neck. Now your whole swing dynamics has changed and you won't be able to get out of your own way during your swing and you will likely start to muscle the club instead of letting it naturally fall into the slot because you can't understand why your ball flight pattern wont change. I could go on forever and I'm sure that I write some of the longest responses on here but golf is just that fascinating to me. Oh and if your job is sedentary and you sit down alot at work stretch your hamstrings often and daily or you will have back problems for sure. You can learn to think the game like Tiger Woods and improve but the difference is that his body is conditioned and he has nothing impeding his swing. As we age it is not necessarily our mechanics that are fading, it more like the muscles that allowed us to have good mechanics and posture are weakening. Hope this helps.

If the sternum is the low point of your swing, for every club in your bag you'd be hitting the ground before the ball, unless you play the ball back in the stance for every shot. You rotate around the spine, but the low point of the swing is the armpit of the lead shoulder. Hence a driver, with the ball just off the shoulder has a very slight upswing as it is caught, and a wedge in the middle of your stance has the divot occurring after the ball. Nothing personal man I just think that you are giving false information and you don't quite understand the golf swing as well it may seem. I have done a lot of work on this and it is my passion so when I see false information try and help correct it. I'm sure that you have looked at my handicap and you say to yourself " what does this guy know" but like I said my experiences have made me ask myself why certain things happen and I went and analyzed it and found the answer and that is why my responses on here are so long is because it takes minute to explain most things in golf. Check out this lesson to one of the best instructors that I have ever seen. His name is Shawn Clement and he is a Canadian pro that has posted about 120 videos on golf on you tube on just about any subject that you can think of. The one in particular explains just what i was talking about with the sternum being the center of the golf swing. He actually plays half of his clubs right handed and half of them left handed during his rounds. See for yourself. I can't link it but the lesson is called " Top 25 Golf Pro Lesson Great Driver Tip" and if you go to you tube and run a search on his name it will pull all his lessons. Scroll to the bottom and click on page number 5 and once it loads then scroll down again and click on page 6. The lesson is on the top row and it is the 4th one over.

[jambalaya]

If the sternum is the low point of your swing, for every club in your bag you'd be hitting the ground before the ball, unless you play the ball back in the stance for every shot.

I was a little confused until I realized that the first part of this post was a quote from Surefire. Just what part of the quote are you disputing. If you are disputing that the left armpit is the low point of the swing then I am going to have to disagree with you too. I agree that the sternum is the center so to speak of the golf swing but not the low point of the swing path arc. The sternum just marks the axis about which we rotate our torso. I have seem many of Shawn Clements videos. I will take a look at the one you mention.

OK, I looked at the video and here is what I heard and saw when he was explaining the iron shot. He said that the sternum marks the low point in the swing yet where the ball is lineup with his body is slightly forward of the sternum, and where he points on the ground in front of the ball as the low point of the swing is forward of that. What he says and what he demostrates do not seem to match.

[Righty to Lefty]

OK, I looked at the video and here is what I heard and saw when he was explaining the iron shot. He said that the sternum marks the low point in the swing yet where the ball is lineup with his body is slightly forward of the sternum, and where he points on the ground in front of the ball as the low point of the swing is forward of that. What he says and what he demostrates do not seem to match.[/QUOTE]

He said that because there is a slight forward lean with an iron shot at impact that moves the lowpoint of the swing forward of the ball and that is why you catch the ball first, then the club bottoms out after the ball. With irons a slight forward lean at impact creates a descending strike into the golfball which is the sign of a good ballstriker. Thats not what you want with a driver so it is played forward of center and you don't want forward lean or you will deloft the driver and lose distance. The sternum simply gives you a gauge to understand where the swings lowest point is and if you shift in any direction that lowpoint changes.

[TinCupTampa]

There are a few opinions as to where the low point of your swing is. This has been covered ad naseum in several threads.

Jack Nicklaus would agree with the left armpit alignment... So I would tend to agree with him.

[gills]

I believe a reverse pivot/straightening of the back leg can cause you to hit fat or thin shots as well. That ties into your spine angle changing throughout your swing.

[Righty to Lefty]

There are a few opinions as to where the low point of your swing is. This has been covered ad naseum in several threads.

Well I have to disagree because physics is pretty much right 99.99% of the time and physics states otherwise. Imagine a child swingin on a swing similar to a golfswing just on diffferent planes. The lowpoint of the swinging action is actually the exact same point where the swing would sit at rest. No matter how much force you apply to that swing is going to swing on the same path and have the same lowpoint unless you change one of the varibles such as the spine ( the bars that support the entire mechanism) or the arms and wrists (the chain that connect the mechanism to the spine or support) Those are the only factors that can move the the swings lowpoint. How can the lowpoint of the swing be outside of the center of the mass or the left armpit? The swings lowpoint can be moved but its lowpoint changes in equal proportion always. Now I have looked at alot of swings in slow mo and the theory still rings true. If the lowpoint of the swing at address was the left armpit then you would have to choke up on the club at address even from a flat lie to allow room for the club to reach that low point or you would drive the club into the ground before you even hit the ball because at the center of mass or the spine, the club would still be descending for another five or six inches depending on how wide your chest is! At address all parts are inline but at impact the hips lead the hands to impact. The the center of the mass doesn't change it simply moved in proportion. A slight forward lean at impact shifts the swings lowpoint forward of the ball an inch or two and that is how you strike the ball first then the ground because the lowpoint of the swing moved in front of the ball. If you stayed centered then you would actually catch the ball as the club was ascending and that is a skulled ball.