LPGA to require English proficiency

[Craig Mac]

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16983

[NBGC]

They CAN communicate with thier fans. It's just that thier fans are oversea's. many of the foriegn players have used the LPGA's tutor's and language program and can already speak at a 5yo level. Problem is that the Asian culture is innately shy, esp in front of crowds and camera's. 1 year is not long enough to learn a language enough to converse in, esp one like English where culture has influenced it's meaning's. I took 2 years of HS Spanish. First 2 semesters we're I and II, basically nouns, verb's, tenses, etc. Last 2 were conversational Spanish, basically you showed up to class on the first day and everything spoken in the class was in Spanish. The first couple days all we did was stand up in front of the class and describe our summer vacation, with a question and answer after each person. Imagine having to do the same, in a harder language, less time, and in front of 100's and camera's televised to thousands...I only had to do it in front of 25 people, who were my FRIENDS.

As for them not being marketable and lacking personality and character, without looking it up:
Who won the Sony open?
Bob Hope Classic?
FBR Open?
Mercedes?
AT&T;?
Honda?
Mayakoba?
Northern Trust?
PODS?
Puerto Rico Open?
World Golf Championships CA?
Zurich? Shell Houston?
Verison Heritege
EDS Byron Nelson?
Crowne Plaza?
Memorial?
Stanford?
Traveler's?
Buick Open (not invitational)?
John Deere?
RBC Canadian?
US Bank?
Legends?
World Golf Championships Bridgestone?
Wyndham?

It's really about exposure. Given more time the names will become familiar. AK has won 2x this year and he's made a name for himself. Did anyone know who AK was 2 years ago? There are hundreds of PGA Tour winner's that I've never heard of, and it's not for lack of personality or character, it's exposure. The LPGA just isn't on TV as often as the PGA, so there's a smaller market. The WNBA almost went under for the same reason's but the NBA sponsored them and basically told the networks "If you wanna watch us play, then you gotta air 15 WNBA games a year" The WNBA is now fully supported by the NBA's umbrella. http://books.google.com/books?id=0Qr...um=8&ct;=result
The LPGA was offered this same deal by the PGA but Given's and Co. declined.

[julie_m]

Here's the thing...the LPGA needs help. There are plenty of people out there interested in watching fine athletics and watching golf seem more accessible a sport (simply, hey, I can play, if a little 5'2" woman can do it well). It is hard to represent a sport if you can't speak the predominant language (there, I said it, that's what we all haven't wanted to hear). The LPGA thought that might help. OK, it didn't.

Here's what else isn't helping: comparing ladies to the heaping slices of deli meat behind the glass case at the grocery. Gulbis' "adventures in photoshop" isn't helping. (I'm about to say something not PC again...) Want more Americans on tour? Leaving our girls overlooked in sports programs and overlooked in golf courses isn't helping. Making them think they can't be curvy or have a funny facial mole to be a star isn't helping.

Look at the PGA. It was originally the non-sport. What helped them, frankly? (Watch out, more non-PC coming.) A charismatic, handsome (but not underclad), Black youth who came from nowhere, Tiger Woods. What is going to help the LPGA? Maybe, oh my gosh but just maybe, something similar, not the they've been pandering to you fellows.

A lot of non-native English speakers on this site were extremely offended by the English proficiency rule. I could congratulate them on their impeccable English and communication skills, but I can see that would be as useful as spitting in the ocean. I was really interested in the perspective of a foreign woman's perspective, but you know.

[golf_junkie27]

This is why I had a problem with the change, orginally. One, the appearance of the way it was represented. Se Ri Pak, dominated on the PGA Tour, for a while. She's a HOF. Why did they not make the change, then? Annika Sorenstam was a dominant figure. When she first came here, he English was excellent but her accent was more pronounced. At times, it made her difficult to understand. Why did they not make the change, then? Lorena Ochoa has been the best player the last few seasons. She speaks English well, too. Like Annika, her accent, at times, can make her difficult to understand. Why did they not make the change, then?

All of a sudden, the Koreans are dominating the LPGA. Now, they want to institute this. The problem with the LPGA is simple: marketing and limited audience. Face it, they have a niche market which the LPGA acknowledges. Just look at how they point to ratings for certain demographics. The hypocracy in all this is how the LPGA stated that the game has grown, exponentially, in 10 years. How there are more women earning millions of dollars in prize money, per year. MORE THAN EVER. How, in fact, they are now charging, minimum, $100,000, for tourney sanction fees. How, in fact, they are turning a profit in over 80% of tournaments. Then, they claim they are losing sponsors. Really? Why, then, did the LPGA state that they only have four tournaments with sponsorship issues?

I would have fully supported the movement had it been presented, differently. However, instead of being forward thinking, they did things that "appeared" to be sketchy and made excuses that contradicted their own examples of the game "growing."

[MPS67]

Here's what else isn't helping: comparing ladies to the heaping slices of deli meat behind the glass case at the grocery. Gulbis' "adventures in photoshop" isn't helping.

Oh come on, give it a rest would you? These girls (and there are some guys on tour that do the same such as Adam Scott, Camilo Villegas, Ian Poulter, Arnold Palmer, etc.) realize that it's the entire package that others don't have that differentiates them; sets them apart. Athletics, talent, personality, charisma, appearance. They and their PR crew know what they're getting themselves into, are taking full advantage of the opportunity to promote themselves, and simultaneously draw interest to the tour, whether you like it or not. It's life. Move on.

[PEZGolf]

When a BIG TIME sponsor says, "Let us rethink this policy", then it can be rescinded:

Re: LPGA to require English proficiency - 1 Day Ago

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Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m
It seems a lot of the women players have many views on the issue. They do owe a lot to the opportunities the LPGA has given them. We have to be careful about summing them up in one word as supporting or not supporting if they're just expressing multiple POVs.

Just don't be surprised if this rule doesn't go away. Adapting, perhaps, but I doubt it'll disappear.

PEZ SEZ: The sponsors are starting to react. "USA Today", in an article written by Jerry Potter, in today's issue, on page 10C, reports that the State Farm Insurance Company, a title sponsor since 1993, has issued this statement:

"We 're not certain this policy is necessary," said Phil Supple, company spokesperson. "We've asked the LPGA to take another look at it."

[Doctorfro]

If you're going to take American money, you should speak english doing it.

[gogolfing]

If you're going to take American money, you should speak english doing it.

So with this logic, when Tiger or Ernie or anyone else goes and win in Dubai, they better start speaking Arabic if they're going to take their money....

Your statement doesn't add up to me.

[julie_m]

Clever. If you don't like what the girl has to say, just attack the girl. That's a tactic that has never been tried before.

[MPS67]

Clever. If you don't like what the girl has to say, just attack the girl. That's a tactic that has never been tried before.

So how am I to behave? If I don't like what someone has to say, whatever their gender, should I remain PC and generate a white lie?

My tactic is to tell it like I see it. Good day.

[ParParBirdie]

If you're going to take American money, you should speak english doing it.

What about Americans taking Korean money? Do they need to speak Korean doing it? Jerry Royster, who coaches one of the baseball teams here in Korea makes a million dollars doesn't speak a word of Korean and coaches the team through interpreter. And you know what, everyone loves him over here along with many other American pro athletes playing here. None of them can speak more than two words of Korean.

Is LPGA's prize money an American money? Are SBS, Samsung, HSBC, and Corona to name a few American companies? How about this? Are American companies such as McDonald's, P&G;, and etc. make more profit overseas or in the US? By the same token, is Samsung making profits by selling its products to Americans? (answer is yes, of course) On the other hand, one of the LPGA sponsors, Hana Financial, is generating all of its profits within Korea. Exactly whose money are we talking about? Let me go back to Jerry Royster. The team he manages, Lotte, is a Korean owned Japanese company who sells its goods in both Korea and Japan and owns another pro baseball team in Japan which is managed by Bobby Valentine. Now, whose money is paying their salary? Japanese or Korean? Today's world that we're living in are so intertwined with each other that every one is somewhat dependent on each other. Look at what subprime mortgage crisis has done to the rest of the world economy. From this perspective, your comment comes across to me as very ignorant. If you don't want to see Korean players in LPGA, just limit the number of Korean players who can play. Simple and direct and no feelings are hurt.

[ParParBirdie]

I'm really curious to know what the real intentions were. What I don't understand is LPGA's claim of "business growth" issue. In one article, it's saying its economic position is greater than ever but in the other, it claims it's losing sponsors and is hurting its revenue. Tell us the truth, LPGA!

[Harry Longshanks]

So how am I to behave? If I don't like what someone has to say, whatever their gender, should I remain PC and generate a white lie?

Yes, you should behave. There is a difference between stating your opinion and telling someone to shut up (i.e., "give it a rest"). Your opinion is not the only one out there, and everyone here can express their opinions whether you agree with them or not. If you can't handle that, the forum software provides 2 options short of leaving: "Ignore User" and/or "Ignore Thread".

It's not about "PC" (which, by the way, has become the excuse for people without social skills to cry when they have no defense for their uncivil behavior. Same for "I'm just telling it like it is.") I don't give a crap about PC. I give a crap about treating others with a little basic respect. Take note of these contrary examples of the ways someone might choose to respond to your posts:

Incorrect: "MPS67, shut up you ignorant misogynist. Hey, I'm just telling it like it is. Get over yourself." Correct: "MPS67, making derogatory remarks not only hurts any legitimate argument that you may have, it is unacceptable behavior for this type of forum.

See how that works? One fosters a continuation of intelligent discussion without relying on personal attacks, while the other only serves to temporarily satiate the poster's id.

[NorCalGolfer]

its not about taking american money. it's about speaking the language that your EMPLOYER wants you to speak.

lets say you're making $5million/year and your employer said "hey...do you mind learning a different language so you can maybe shmooze some sponsors or perhaps teach some interns" The interns being amateurs which are a huge part of getting fresh faces on the LPGA. Would you take your employer up on his request or would you basically just throw away all that money you're making??

****in man up and quit playing the race card. I can say this cuz I'm part asian.

[MPS67]

Yes, yes, of course. Now I see - Harry Longshanks. Thank you so much for the valuable lesson. I'm such an idiot.

Regards, Mark

[iQuest Golfer]

its not about taking american money. it's about speaking the language that your EMPLOYER wants you to speak.

Thanks for your thoughts! I completely agree...

One thing I have encouraged my kids to do is to learn a language that will help them create additional opportunities in life - both business and social. I have two sons that have learned Spanish... no brainer there... They speak and write it fluently. One son has moved on to Portuguese and Italian with the same results. They both see the need for Chinese and are actively working on that language as well. They both have been able to travel and live extensively outside the US. People in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Mexico, and California, Texas, Florida, etc. are amazed that they speak like natives. On the golf course it has been especially advantageous. It has also been interesting when natives find out an American can speak and understand the language. Many times the natives clam up and don't say a lot - especially when they bad-mouth Americans thinking they are stupid and my sons nail them. Other times, they want to speak exclusively in English for the practice whereas my sons want to talk the local language for their practice. Either way, speaking the "lingo" is a benefit not a burden to any individual... and, when you are getting paid the bucks that are up for grabs, IMHO, it's not a point of discussion; it's only an excuse!

[Magnus]

its not about taking american money. it's about speaking the language that your EMPLOYER wants you to speak.

The LPGA didn't ask if they minded.......they made it a condition of being a member.

And because your part asian you can tell people of race what or what not to do?

[NBGC]

its not about taking american money. it's about speaking the language that your EMPLOYER wants you to speak.

First off, nobody in the forum is in the top 1% in the world at whatever competition or work that they do. So take a moment to think about the commitment it take's be and stay at that calibur.

Ok, so you're in the top 1% of whatever your hypothetical business is, working 80hr work weeks 9 months out of the year working on commision in for instance Pakistan, away from friends, family, home. The other 3 months you have a "break" where you only work 40 hr's a week and can be at home visiting, but while there you have to do photo shoot's, seminar's, meet and greet's, etc on top of the workload. So now you're required to learn a new language, be conversant in it, while not dropping your work load, in fact, you need to improve your commision and work harder to stay in the 1%. You have few friends, and the one's you have speak your native tongue. You can't hang out with any of your co-workers because they are just as busy as you are. You are in a hostile work enviroment where your co-workers and the general public doesn't like you because you don't fit in physically and keep beating them at thier own game, making them look bad or lazy. But then your boss says, just learning the language is not enough, you need to learn it within 1 year or you're fired. Fired. No matter how good you are, no matter what foundations you have, no matter how much you donate to charity, no matter any circumstances. Additionally, you must ALSO speak that language in front of hundreds live and thousands on television. Oh, by the way, don't mispronounce any words or use the wrong phrases cuz you'll make yourself as well as the company look bad worldwide. I guess you make it sound simple enough. The issue isn't that they should " ****ing man up " and learn the language. They for the most part can speak English, the issue is that they are REQUIRED TO , not " hey...do you mind learning " and not a " take your employer up on his request " as you said. And it's not just to speak with a few people, but the fan's, tournament commitee, and media. As for IQuest Golfer: How long did your sons' take to learn the languages? Were they young or in thier 20's when they learned? Were they working 80 hr work weeks? Could they have held a press conference within 1 year? I think alot of people are forgeting that the foriegn players realize and understand that it is advantageous to learn English. The issue is for them to speak it in front of mass. For the most part the Asian culture is non confrontational, shy if you will, with an emphisis on perfection is aspects of thier public lives. They are afraid of embarressing themselves, family, and country by making minor liguistical mistakes in front of audiences. That's like telling Olympian athlete's 1 year before the Seoul Olympics that they needed to learn Korean so they could talk to the fans, official's, other athlete's, hold press conference's, etc or they couldn't compete, all the while maintaining thier world class training schedule. What's the difference? I can say this because i'm part Asian.