Rules question - putting green tamping

[Fat Slice]

I was at a tournament today watching my friend's 11 year old daughter play. There was a girl in her foursome who, as part of her putting routine, would move debris out of her path (no problem, I do as well), then tamp down the green near the hole with her putter .

I was sure that was illegal! I thought you could repair ball marks - that's it. I didn't think you could mash a channel into the hole on your line. You can't even repair spike marks, so, what gives?

The rules guy saw it all 9 holes and just ignored it.

[martin00015]

I was at a tournament today watching my friend's 11 year old daughter play. There was a girl in her foursome who, as part of her putting routine, would move debris out of her path (no problem, I do as well), then

Ball marks and old hole plugs are all a player should repair before putting (rule 16-1a). If a spike mark is also repaired as a consequence of making a legal repair, that is ok. Maybe he was giving a nine-year old some leeway. However, in my opinion it would be better in the long run to instruct juniors in the correct way, however harsh it may seem at the time. It will save tears in the future.

[Lefty731PM]

I was at a tournament today watching my friend's 11 year old daughter play. There was a girl in her foursome who, as part of her putting routine, would move debris out of her path (no problem, I do as well), then

The tragedy of this is that this girl has presumably played with adults and not one has dared to say "Hang on there - you can't do that!" No wonder there are so many players who are new to the game who think that rules are these quaint things that older players get hung up on. That's why there are so many players who "shoot in the 80s" but interpret the rules to suit themselves at best and at worst disregard them completely. I think you should have mentioned this to the official, but I can understand why you didn't, given that your friend's daughter was playing.

[kregan]

Wouldn't that be deemed testing your line?

There was a girl in her foursome who, as part of her putting routine, would move debris out of her path (no problem, I do as well), then

[iacas]

Wouldn't that be deemed testing your line?

Among other things, yes.

[iPutt]

I honestly don't see the big deal. They're 11!!!! To me, it just sounds like a friendly tournament. If I was hassled when I first started about every little rule I would probably give up the game because I wasn't having any fun. And I think that's the main goal, to have fun. But you can't do that if you're constantly worrying about where you're laying your club. Let them get a good basic concept for the love of the game now and worry about rules and regulations later.

And don't tell me that they'll develop bad habits because if they're playing for something meaningful, no one will want to add extra strokes for meaningless rule violations.

[kregan]

Pointing out the rule is not my definition of hassling someone. On top of that the OP was not talking about laying a club down. The player was "damping down the grass around the hole", that is a clear violation of the rules.

Isn't the whole premise of kids and golf based on rules and the self policing of those rules along with honor and respect for your opponents. I would not throw down a penalty on the first infraction but a parent or coach has a duty to teach children the rules. If it had been my child I would have quietly pulled her aside and informed her of the rule. Maybe she would invoke a penalty on herself. How proud would that make you feel if your kid did that? Think that is harsh? I think it is the right thing to teach a child.

I honestly don't see the big deal. They're 11!!!! To me, it just sounds like a friendly tournament. If I was hassled when I first started about every little rule I would probably give up the game because I wasn't having any fun. And I think that's the main goal, to have fun. But you can't do that if you're constantly worrying about where you're laying your club. Let them get a good basic concept for the love of the game now and worry about rules and regulations later.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

The official(s) should have given her a warning the first time she did it, just to gently bring it to her attention that it's against the rules. If she continued to do it on the next green, then maybe a penalty would be justified, but I think correcting her on the rules of the game for a first offense is neither harsh nor uncalled for.

-Andrew

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

If it had been my child I would have quietly pulled her aside and informed her of the rule. Maybe she would invoke a penalty on herself. How proud would that make you feel if your kid did that?

Good point.

-Andrew

[Fat Slice]

The official(s) should have given her a warning the first time she did it, just to gently bring it to her attention that it's against the rules. If she continued to do it on the next green, then maybe a penalty would be justified, but I think correcting her on the rules of the game for a first offense is neither harsh nor uncalled for.

That's what I would have hoped. The tournament had a rule, though, that not only could you not talk to the kids (must maintain 25 yard distance), but also there is to be NO communication with the rules judge - period!

I broke that once, because the idiot forgot to measure a 'closest to the hole' tee shot a girl stuck at 23 inches. I had to yell at him before she marked her ball. He was in la la land. As far as pointing out an infraction, though, it wasn't my kid playing, the rules said no talking to the scorer, so I told my friend and just kept quiet. I don't think it's a 'big deal' as far as it affecting scoring, but it IS a big deal just like *all* rules are a big deal. You cannot have a fair competition unless everyone is playing with the same rules. There are nice ways to educate a kid about these things.

[NM Golf]

I honestly don't see the big deal. They're 11!!!! To me, it just sounds like a friendly tournament. If I was hassled when I first started about every little rule I would probably give up the game because I wasn't having any fun. And I think that's the main goal, to have fun. But you can't do that if you're constantly worrying about where you're laying your club. Let them get a good basic concept for the love of the game now and worry about rules and regulations later.

This is what is wrong with the world today. Let them play and have fun and there is no need for any rules. No. They should learn the rules and play by them, period. God forbid they don't win or have to feel bad for 5 minutes because they broke a rule. We as a society have no consequences anymore because if someone doesn't like the rules they just don't play by them. What is wrong with an 11 year old being taught to play by the rules. I feel sorry for ANYONE that thinks playing by the rules is no fun. Life must be a struggle for you.

[foreleft]

This is what is wrong with the world today. Let them play and have fun and there is no need for any rules. No. They should learn the rules and play by them, period. God forbid they don't win or have to feel bad for 5 minutes because they broke a rule. We as a society have no consequences anymore because if someone doesn't like the rules they just don't play by them. What is wrong with an 11 year old being taught to play by the rules. I feel sorry for ANYONE that thinks playing by the rules is no fun. Life must be a struggle for you.

Well said!

[v3rs3]

I think this is along the same lines that I run into every weekend. I'm a football official for high-school and pee-wee football. In the younger stages we don't call every penalty b/c there would be a flag on every single play. You have to let them have fun with the game first and then slowly progress them into the rules and their consequences. We will sometimes tell the coaches, like "Hey little #45 is lined up in the neutral zone, gotta watch that", or even sometimes as an official we will just let the kid know, hey you have to be behind the ball when it's snapped.

[NM Golf]

I think this is along the same lines that I run into every weekend. I'm a football official for high-school and pee-wee football. In the younger stages we don't call every penalty b/c there would be a flag on every single play. You have to let them have fun with the game first and then slowly progress them into the rules and their consequences. We will sometimes tell the coaches, like "Hey little #45 is lined up in the neutral zone, gotta watch that", or even sometimes as an official we will just let the kid know, hey you have to be behind the ball when it's snapped.

I agree with this as I referee football myself, but there is still an expectation of the kids playing by the rules. Also, as the kids get older they are held to a higher standard of being able to play by the rules. Its not like the players, coaches, and fans want the rules tossed out, thats ridiculous. Its a learning process. The first time I normally help them learn the rule, the second time its a penalty. To not do so what be an injustice to the kids themselves. But if you ask our resident pot smoking hippie playing by the rules is optional and actually not doing so is somehow sticking it the the "man".

[Fourputt]

I honestly don't see the big deal. They're 11!!!! To me, it just sounds like a friendly tournament. If I was hassled when I first started about every little rule I would probably give up the game because I wasn't having any fun. And I think that's the main goal, to have fun. But you can't do that if you're constantly worrying about where you're laying your club. Let them get a good basic concept for the love of the game now and worry about rules and regulations later.

And this sage advice from a 35 handicapper.

A competition is a competition, and all players MUST play by the same set of rules and conditions or it isn't fair to the field.... period. This is exactly why so many American golfers have such a fanciful idea of what the rules are. They were never introduced to the Rules of Golf, never called when they breached a rule, and then they don't even believe that they are doing wrong until it's shown to them in black and white. And even then they will often argue and question it. I do agree with the point that instruction should be emphasized over penalty for young junior golfers, but at some point the grace period ends and they have to learn that there are consequences for a rules breach. If you can't start a youngster out correctly, then there is little hope for the rest of us.

[Lefty731PM]

I honestly don't see the big deal. They're 11!!!! To me, it just sounds like a friendly tournament. If I was hassled when I first started about every little rule I would probably give up the game because I wasn't having any fun. And I think that's the main goal, to have fun. But you can't do that if you're constantly worrying about where you're laying your club. Let them get a good basic concept for the love of the game now and worry about rules and regulations later.

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heaven help this game!

The point is that this girl was obviously strutting about and this putting routine was deliberate and practiced. She was not a 2 year old flailing away in the backyard. There was a rules official. Why assume it was a "friendly tournament"? My bet is that the offending child was taking it pretty seriously and she has parents who are the same.

[ganjagolfer]

i never knew about this rule, i carry a shovel in my bag and dig a canal to the hole that i putt my ball in, suppose this is illegal and now i won't do it anymore

[Zeph]

I've played golf for some years, and beside the really basic stuff I very rarely need to use the rulebook. Given things like not tampering with your putting line, moving the ball, cleaning it outside the green was something I learned on the beginners course. Those are the rules of the game, if you want to play, you follow the rules. It's as simple as that. Bad habits concerned to rules is something you take with you from the beginning. I know and have played with many juniors, some below 10. They have learned the rules from the beginning and have no problems playing by them. Some strange things always occur from time to time where we have to look up the rules, but that's also a part of the game.