HARD hooks? cant figure it out...

[wkdspd]

the last 3 rounds, I have found when I really go after a tee shot from my normal address I will hook the ball HARD, and cant figure out why. In the past over-exerting on my drive always pushed or even sliced the ball, but just recently I cant seem to force a push with sheer power. when I even-out my tempo, and get back into rhythm, Im dead straight again at 275-280, and workable left and right at about 260. Im playing an 08 TM Burner with a factory stiff shaft, only mod being to pull the shaft and spine it (I spined it when I first bought it at the first of the seaason, so I dont think thats the issue). any ideas guys? Im scared to lay into a carry shot for fear of needing a chainsaw to get my ball back! :D

[ks8829]

I hook the driver when I do the following:

1) My right hand takes over
2) I don't complete my backswing
3) my head doesn't stay behind the ball
4) my rear shoulder is not lower than my front shoulder
5) My left hand grip is not properly set where the pad nearest my pinky of my left hand is not secured under the club.
6) my grip is too strong

Remedies for hooking the driver

1) check my left hand position
2) check my body position in relations to my hands, make sure not too close
3) slightly open the club face
4) make sure I am not taking the club too much inside the line
5) make sure my grip is slightly weaker than stronger
6) lower my rear shoulder and stay behind the ball
7) swing 80%

[bigoak]

When I hit a hard hook it is due to what I call " chicken winging " the right elbow extends from riding along the chest and extends. This closes down the face and changes the path of the swing and the ball goes left and lefter.

[wkdspd]

thanks guys, I think you both may have points on my problem -

KS - you mention right hand taking over - I think this may be one of my main issues. when I try to bear down Im power swinging with my right arm (which also leads to bigoak's explanation). this would explain the snap and why it fixes itself when I re-groove myself and slow down.

headed out this morning to get a round in, and if this wicked hook comes back, Im headed to the range with a camera to try and find it...

thanks!

[ks8829]

I have cured my hook by making sure my left hand grip is properly holding the club and that is with the pad closest to my pinky is secured under the club so that my left hand grip is firm and careful that my right hand is loose and on the club with a weak grip.

I tilt my rear shoulder lower than front shoulder and tuke my right elbow closer to my body than my front elbow or left, now I take my club back keeping a straight left arm and the club will not pass parallal because of the tilt in the rear shoulder and now I can come through the ball as hard as I want without fearing the hook. I also have been tee up the ball so that the top of the ball is no higher than the top or crown of the driver and placing the ball slightly back in my stance. My 10.5 degree driver has been flying too high and this has helped keep the trojectory lower and the ball is a more penetrator drive with more roll.

another thing that I have found is that if I keep my hand position in relations with my body further away the more right the ball goes, so be careful to watch your hand position and that its not too close to your body.

[wkdspd]

I appreciate the help, still not getting it though. only hit 6 fairways today, a stat that forced an 84... an unintentional draw is also working its way into my irons. NOT a good thing. Im going in for some coaching with a local pro, hopefully he can figure it out, he seems confident he can or he wont charge me. wish me luck...

[kc8kir]

I'm thinking the shaft tip is too soft for your swing. As a result when you really go at it, the face closes much faster due to increased shaft load, and the ball hooks. Over time it will mess up your swing with other clubs because you will change your hand timing to adapt to the shaft.

Try a shaft with a higher kickpoint, or heavier shaft at the local golf shop. See what happens when you really go at it.

[wkdspd]

now that's an interesting thought - I try not to blame my equipment for issues in my shotmaking (seems like a copout, heheh) but tip stiffness makes sense in this situation. Ill bring it up when I talk with the pro. thanks -

[RC]

Kick point and shaft flex are major things to consider. The high kick point and stiffer (and heavier) shafts will help, but if you are coming over the top, that is a swing issue most of the time. A ball that starts left and hooks is both over the top and a premature release -- otherwise it would fade back toward your line.

It is hard to come over the top if your swing includes a strong, non-sliding, hip clearing move that keeps generating power through impact; since centripetal force will help keep the club coming from inside to square to back inside. Of course you need to finish on the left leg, with the right hip ahead of the left on the follow through -- you don't just spin the hips, you keep them turning and leading the shot (sort of hard to describe in words.)

A strong grip can also be a problem if you get handsy and out run your lower body. Strong grip players learn to hold off through impact. A golf club wants to flip shut if there is any deceleration or getting ahead of the ball (that is a physics thing that happens normally.) I personally think the majority of weekend golfers would push and slice the ball if they cleared their hips as quickly at most touring pros. A quick hip clearing will not fix all swing problems, but once you get the timing down, squaring the club down the line is a lot easier using the lower body than it is using the upper body -- assuming a good backswing and good start to the downswing. I am not saying you do not turn the shoulders and arms hard through the shot -- you should, but only within the support and power generated from the ground up.

This is beginning to sound like a broken record so to really know if you are doing it right, it is best to see a good teacher.

[wingchamps]

Hogan battled the same problem and fixed it by fanning the clubface open as far as possible on takeaway, this allowed him to release as hard as he could on the downswing without the possibility of hooking. Try it, it works.

[wkdspd]

FOUND IT / FIXED IT!!! HOT D@MN!!!

ks8829 and RC had the answer, I just didnt see it. was at Golfsmith today hitting different drivers trying shafts (following the other advice in this thread, more on that in a minute) and one of the GolfTec instructors saw my frustration and offered to bring me in on the monitor and show me something - I figured why not, knowing it would be a sell for lessons, but if he saw something it couldnt hurt.

first of all, anybody who has access to a GolfTec lesson studio, do yourself a favor and get in there, if nothing else just to see the tech, very cool. he showed me my swing from several different angles, showed my swingplane, compared it to professional golfers using videos of them at the same positions, etc. turns out I swing just like Stadler, big shoulders/chest and all, and I swing nothing like Tiger, lol... he showed me where my swing plane was solid, where my lower body was appropriately quiet, where my tempo was spot-on for big power, where my clubface was squaring up on time...

then he showed me the ugly... he showed me where Im taking my club past horizontal at the apex of my swing, which is making me pull the clubhead up and over to bring it back around (making me force the club back on plane in the downswing) causing it not to close until the very last second. he also showed me where my grip was WAY to strong in my right hand, which combined with the swing is causing me to SNAP through the ball - HOOK CITY...

so I weakened my right hand grip till it almost hurt, forced myself to stop my backswing early, and hit five dead straight balls in a row... now the best part is that I cleaned up my ball path, but just as cool is that I now know my swing speed has increased to 108mph, and the monitor says I killed 3 drives in a row to 280yds...

last but not least, he told me that I needed to upgrade my driver shaft, so Im on the hunt and listening to all suggestions. he recommended an extra stiff, with a stiff tip and mid kick, and low torque to help control the snap when I bear down on it.

Overall Im satisfied. Ill know more this weekend whether or not it works permanently. thanks guys for your help, and I would love to hear comments on what I found out today, including shaft recommendations!

WHEW that was long, sorry!!!

[wkdspd]

so have followed up the analysis with two rounds, and have hit 24/28 fairways, for 80/79 scores. Im catching the ball well off the tee, but averaging 260ish in distance. need to look into shafts now, as recommended. hit my buddy's tour burner with the 72g Epic shaft, added another 10 yrds to the average at just over 275... any ideas on shafts?

[divottool]

If you are not moving your lower body that can produce hard hooks also.

[TommyD69]

I use a "heavier" Stiff Graphite shaft.

If you are built like Stadler (big and strong), you definitely want a heavier driver shaft...

I really like the Grafalloy shafts.

Get yourself a "Golfworks" catalog and/or check out their web site. There are a Zillion shafts out there, and experimenting can be fun (and expensive).

Also, I think you need a little more loft on your driver, more loft = more carry = more distance...

Good luck!!!

[Petden]

What about the Proforce V2 85 and the Fujikura Speeder 757. Both of those seem pretty nice.

[wkdspd]

tommy - agreed, heavier shaft needed, specifically in dealing with clubhead torque. Im with you on Grafalloy shafts, have been researching and grafalloy are in the top 2 along with UST. Ireally like the Epic shaft my buddy has in his driver, but I also really like the V2 I hit this past week at Golfsmith in a Tour Burner. which brings me to...

Pet - not as keen on the speeder757, but I agree on the v2... just ordered a 67g 2.8/282/7.8/32... was fitted this past week and this is the shaft that was recommended. it seems it may be a tad stiff for me now, but the pro said it was specifically to help control the head torque. He said my swing was still improving and that I was already on the edge of needing this shaft, and that I would grow into it pretty quick.

Ill let you guys know how it works, I appreciate all the comments! thank you!

btw - hit 14/14 fairways today with no 3 putts... knocked down a 77... getting closer!