Hitting Down: Instruction Necessary?

[jambalaya]

I have come to the conclusion that despite improvement in my game recently by using the "Golf Swing and it's Master Key" book, I seem to be sweeping the ball a little more instead of hitting down on it with my irons. I know of two instruction books or videos that discuss and emphasize hitting down on the ball and how to do it. I have not bought the books or videos of either. But I thought, how much discussion is really necessary and to I really need a $90 DVD to help out? What you usually find is a small part of the video devoted to hitting down and the rest of golfing fundamentals you already know about.

So instead, I ask the good members of Sand Trap to tell me what I need to do to improve this part of my game.

[PiKapp23]

For me, the most important thing to do to improve hitting down on the ball is the forward press of grip, then I like to feel like I'm 'dragging' the club through the impact zone. This swing thought usually works for me, but it took me a few years before I really figured this out.

[klaymon]

I think my key was getting my weight transfer to my front foot. Before I got the transfer down, I was a sweeper and, more often than not, I would hit thin shots.

[cigarnut81]

practice hitting balls out of divots and you will learn to hit down or never hit a good shot from a divot.

[jambalaya]

practice hitting balls out of divots and you will learn to hit down or never hit a good shot from a divot.

Interesting. I can go to a my favorite practice range, which is all grass, and find all the divots I need.

[wachesawgolfer]

First step is to determine the bottom of your swing and place the ball in your stance, so that the clubhead hits the ball first and bottoms out after that. Learn to make the precise ball position a part of your setup and preshot routine for each club so its exact for each club.

Second you need to be in good position at the top so that you can swing directly down. Thin shots are the result of faulty backswing mechanics some of which are: the arms are too steep or over swung, the club has come inside at the bottom, the body has swayed back, not turned, or the spine angle/right leg angle straightened in the move back. All things cause the club to be over the top with the left arm breaking down/forward prior to impact causing it to be shortened, hence the thin shots. No matter what you do the shots stay thin or fat until you correct these faults in the backswing.

Set up to hit a ball. Now take a shaft and stick it in the ground at the same angle as the club you are using. Move to the left so the shaft is still on line with you but at 9:00 in the backswing the hosel of your would hit the shaft. Now take backswings to the top not hitting the shaft. Once you can do that, then swing straight down from the top so that the club does not hit the shaft on the downswing. Hover the club just slightly so the backswing move is a solid move back and not a lifting of the club by the arms. This one move keeps the left arm well extended back and through. I put pool tubing on my shaft so as not to hurt my graphite shafts should I venture over the top on the way down and hit the shaft.

[Eeryck]

I hope this thread generates some good responses as this is something that I have also struggled to understand.

The closest thing that I can offer to "hitting down on the ball" that I have noticed as a beginner is when I practice chipping. For a long time the ball would just fly straight up with no rotation.

I recently made a change and I have noticed that the ball now spins back towards me while in the air then hits the ground and rolls to the target. I think that is because for the chips at least I have "hit down on the ball."

Hopefully, this will translate to my pitch shots then full swing as I continue to practice.

-E

[1dayIllBaPro]

I think this is a biggest problems why new golfers don't hit down on the ball.
As we all learn since we were born, if we need to make something fly high, we need to throw it up. When I first started golfing, I thought I had to lift up the club in order to make the ball flies also.
Golf is opposite, If you want to make the ball fly, you hit down on it. Because of the loft each club has, the ball will fly. The higher the loft, the higher the ball will fly.

Agree with forward press at adress. You can try this. With an iron in your hand, swing a club until you are at the impact postition, make sure the club shaft is leaning forward. Now, hold that position and try to push your club against the ground. Your club shaft should bend a little bit. This should make you feel of hitting down on the ball.

Using impact bag is also good. If you don't have one, you can use your golf bag, etc. I learned this drill from Jim Mclean 8 steps swing, and it was pretty good. You would feel hitting agaisnt something and in order to do this properly, you club needs to lean forward. Make sure you do this drill slow because you are gonna get hurt.

Another thing you should feel in you swing is that you should feel your club still going down even you're already hit the ball. This will make your arms extend to the target, thus more speed and more slight of the clubhead along the target line (more distance and accurate)

[lynchjo]

You've all heard the cliche - "hit down on the golf ball to make it go up!" So what is really happening when a golf ball is well struck at impact? It took me 8 years before I figured this out...and it was Lee Trevino who finally explained it to me.

When you swing down on the ball at impact the golf ball actually spins up the club face to the top grooves. This is what the grooves in the club face are for...this is what gives the golf ball spin. How do you think pro golfers stop the ball on a dime on the green? They are using more of the grooves on the club face than amateurs. Golfers who flip the club face at impact are only utilizing the bottom grooves on the club face...the result; a weak, flat trajectory with little spin...Their left wrist has completely broken down at impact.

Lee likes to imagine the back of his left hand is the club face while he is swinging. On the down swing he imagines "trapping" the back of his left hand into the back of the ball. World famous golf swing guru Butch Harmon says he likes to feel like he has Bethlehem Steel in his left wrist at impact. Watch the golf pros left wrist at impact...most of them have a bowed left wrist at impact.

Hope this helps.

[flopdarock]

my very first lesson a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away... before even hitting a ball... was that golf is a game of opposites... hit down to go up... etc etc... even ppl with wicked slices can cure them by analyzing the anatomy of whats causing it... not just what they are doing wrong with their swings... but actually understanding how the actual impact affects flight/spin/tragectory/etc.etc... man i love the science of golf... probably why i have trouble with my game... over thinking... anyways...

i find it a problem being self taught... cuz you dont have another set of eyes observing you... then again... info is power

[Shindig]

practice hitting balls out of divots and you will learn to hit down or never hit a good shot from a divot.

Question: how deep and wide should the divot be? Should I make a few with, say, 9-iron shots and then hit out of those?

I also wonder: how many should I hit from the divot before going to fresh turf? I worry that I'll groove a "ball below my feet" swing. That having been said, I might just give this a try next time I'm at the grass range.

[trjohnson2]

take a towel and put it a couple inches behind the ball. take your swings trying to not hit the towel. Its cheap, simple, gives instant feedback and can really groove the feeling of swinging down for you.
The mental image I use is to think about pinching the ball with the tips of my fingers, where one finger is the club face and the other is the ball. Pinch a round ball right and it pops up and out with backspin.
Good luck in your pursuit and merry christmas

[anthonykim3]

trjonhson2 is right take a golf towel lay it down 6 inches to a 1 foot behind the ball and make swings not hitting the towel but hitting the ball first then having your swing bottom out this will give you the feel of have a steep angle at the ball and will make you a better ball striker you will find that when you hit down oposse to sweeping the ball you will be straighter

[Righty to Lefty]

You've all heard the cliche -

This is completely and utterly false and is in no way accurate. The ONLY time the ball can actually slide up the face of the club is when the clubhead is wet and maybe a lil from the rough. The ONLY time grooves are used is from the rough and they don't create spin they moves debris and moisture away from the hitting surface of the club so the ball can compress against it like tread on a tire and in that instance help provide spin. Spin is created from the loft of the club period and grooves aren't even used from the fairway or a clean lie because the ball can compress against the face of the club without anything getting trapped between the hitting surface and the ball. Next, pro golfers generate a bunch of spin because the strike the ball purely. They strike the ball first and then the turf a few inches later and that in combination with the loft of the club creates the spin. If the ball spun up the face you would see a line running up a pros wedge where ball after ball have slid up the face but you only see a wearmark about the size of a nickel because that is the size of the contact mark from a golf ball. The max number of grooves used on any shot is about 4 or 5. The sand trap ran a forum about grooves so you should look it up and check out what they said. Now to explain hitting down on the ball if you simply watch some swingvision shots of a pros impact you will see what hitting down on the ball is. It doesn't mean that you clubhead comes into the ball steeply, it simply means that the clubhead bottoms out AFTER the ball. If this happens then the clubhead was traveling downward at it impact with the ball in effect hitting down. Now how does that happen? You have to know where the lowpoint of your swing is. At address the lowest point in your swing is right AT the ball. I used the sternum (located between your pecs) as a reference to help me monitor the lowpoint of my swing. Any movement of the sternum in any direction changes the lowpoint of your swing. If it moves back and stays back you will catch the ball thin, if it moves up you will skull it because the lowpoint will move to about the equator of the golf ball, it is moves down you will hit is fat because the lowpoint of the swing has moved below the ball so the club bottoms out behind it, if it doesn't move you will be what is called a "PICKER" who doesn't take a divot and you can play like this but you border on disaster with hitting it thin, fat,skull, or chunky if you aren't perfect. If you move too far forward then you will hit the ball first which is good, but you will drive the ball into the ground or chunk it. Now finally to what happens when you move the lowpoint of your swing only about 3 to 4 inches in front of the ball. The clubhead will strike the ball on a slightly descending path and then it will strike the ground taking just the right amount of turf sending the purely struck ball towards it target. All the things that happens during this swing is what pros are describing but we amatuers take to the extremes i.e. " hitting down on the ball, trapping the ball against the turf, or pinching the ball against the turf." This is what you want for you irons and hybrids. With the fairway woods " see description of PICKER" and for the driver you want the club SLIGHTLY ascending. To work on it practice you chipping and half wedge shots by focusing on a spot 2 inches in front of the ball and then take a normal swing. At first it will be hard to convince yourself to do it but it works. Also listen to the ball as you are hitting your half wedge shots because a purely struck ball makes a distinct noise if you know what you are listening for. To me it sounds like and egg being dropped on the ground. When I practice my iron play I am listening for these "eggs cracking" and I know if I've executed my shot before I even look up to find the ball. I can feel the backlash coming from this post already!!! Where is SUREFIRE!!!

[microcrayfish]

This is completely and utterly false and is in no way accurate. The ONLY time the ball can actually slide up the face of the club is when the clubhead is wet and maybe a lil from the rough. The ONLY time grooves are used is from the rough and they don't create spin they moves debris and moisture away from the hitting surface of the club so the ball can compress against it like tread on a tire and in that instance help provide spin. Spin is created from the loft of the club period and grooves aren't even used from the fairway or a clean lie because the ball can compress against the face of the club without anything getting trapped between the hitting surface and the ball. Next, pro golfers generate a bunch of spin because the strike the ball purely. They strike the ball first and then the turf a few inches later and that in combination with the loft of the club creates the spin. If the ball spun up the face you would see a line running up a pros wedge where ball after ball have slid up the face but you only see a wearmark about the size of a nickel because that is the size of the contact mark from a golf ball. The max number of grooves used on any shot is about 4 or 5. The sand trap ran a forum about grooves so you should look it up and check out what they said. Now to explain hitting down on the ball if you simply watch some swingvision shots of a pros impact you will see what hitting down on the ball is. It doesn't mean that you clubhead comes into the ball steeply, it simply means that the clubhead bottoms out AFTER the ball. If this happens then the clubhead was traveling downward at it impact with the ball in effect hitting down. Now how does that happen? You have to know where the lowpoint of your swing is. At address the lowest point in your swing is right AT the ball. I used the sternum (located between your pecs) as a reference to help me monitor the lowpoint of my swing. Any movement of the sternum in any direction changes the lowpoint of your swing. If it moves back and stays back you will catch the ball thin, if it moves up you will skull it because the lowpoint will move to about the equator of the golf ball, it is moves down you will hit is fat because the lowpoint of the swing has moved below the ball so the club bottoms out behind it, if it doesn't move you will be what is called a "PICKER" who doesn't take a divot and you can play like this but you border on disaster with hitting it thin, fat,skull, or chunky if you aren't perfect. If you move too far forward then you will hit the ball first which is good, but you will drive the ball into the ground or chunk it. Now finally to what happens when you move the lowpoint of your swing only about 3 to 4 inches in front of the ball. The clubhead will strike the ball on a slightly descending path and then it will strike the ground taking just the right amount of turf sending the purely struck ball towards it target. All the things that happens during this swing is what pros are describing but we amatuers take to the extremes i.e. " hitting down on the ball, trapping the ball against the turf, or pinching the ball against the turf." This is what you want for you irons and hybrids. With the fairway woods " see description of PICKER" and for the driver you want the club SLIGHTLY ascending. To work on it practice you chipping and half wedge shots by focusing on a spot 2 inches in front of the ball and then take a normal swing. At first it will be hard to convince yourself to do it but it works. Also listen to the ball as you are hitting your half wedge shots because a purely struck ball makes a distinct noise if you know what you are listening for. To me it sounds like and egg being dropped on the ground. When I practice my iron play I am listening for these "eggs cracking" and I know if I've executed my shot before I even look up to find the ball. I can feel the backlash coming from this post already!!! Where is SUREFIRE!!!

Well here's the first bit of backlash. Seriously man, it seems like you have a good point to make there but you need to paragraph your posts if they're going to be that long.

[CharlieKing]

Jambalaya,
Good question and some good advice from other forum members. My 20 years of teaching experience tell me that trying to lift or "scoop" the ball is the biggest fault in golf. I've written more on this subject and taught more on this subject than any other. Go to my video golf lesson I call Golf's Most Important Lesson. It will explain my thoughts and drills that help this issue. I also wrote a book called You're NOT Lifting Your Head to talk about this and what I considered poor instruction. It's now available as a free download on my website www.reynoldsgolfacademy.com .

[Righty to Lefty]

Jambalaya,

The pros were lurking in the background and now there coming out to play finally!!

[$2 Nassau]

Try not to overthink it and don't get too technical.

Just be sure that you have constant acceleration through the ball on the downswing. This will ensure that your hands stay ahead of the clubface through the hitting zone.

If you decelerate (slow your hands down) the clubface will pass your hands and you will end up scooping the ball, if you don't just flat out chunk it before even getting to the ball.

Hitting down on the ball is a result of clubhead lag, and lag is created from acceleration.

I don't mean to state this as gospel, but this thought process has helped me tremendously.