whats a good handicap?

[i-Guy]

Its not really cheating its just not bothering to play by the rules

It is cheating if you post that round for handicap purposes per the USGA.

This is not "i-Guy's" rule...if I play a casual round or a practice round I sometimes play mulitple balls trying differnt shots but I do not post that round for handicap purposes. I will tell you that if you play tournament golf they will make you go back to the tee...I had that happen to me in a FSGA quailifer tournament once as we were teeing off into the rising sun and I hit my ball in the rough and we searched for 5 minutes and could not find it...back to the tee I went...embarrassing to say the least

[JML22]

Well i can guarantee there are A LOT of people who do that and dont realize how big of a difference it makes

[i-Guy]

Well i can guarantee there are A LOT of people who do that and dont realize how big of a difference it makes

OH you are so correct on that point! I am sure many of us have experienced playing with someone who tells you they usually shoot in the 80's and then they don't count if they whiff or they don't take proper penalty strokes and I even have buddies who struggle with the math...LMAO! They will get done with the hole and start counting and I already know their score (I am an accountant so it just comes natural) and they will routinely miss count...and funny they always come up with less strokes...Ha! Ha! Once in awhile (because it really doesn't matter to me as I only care that I count my score correctly...unless we are playing for money) I will correct them and point out each shot to get them to their true triple bogey...and usually they just go “Oh yeah I forgot about that one stroke”...and then two holes later they do it again...LOL

Don't get me wrong in that I am a strict rule follower (oh yeah I did tell you I am an accountant already...dang ) but really I just think that a set of rules (USGA) gives you the opportunity to measure yourself consistently and gives you the ability to compare for purposes of improving…anyone can sandbag but then again I have seen scratch golfers shoot 85…that is why they call it GOLF!!!

[Deryck Griffith]

There is alot interesting comments going on here...Really, this whole thread comes down to how you define "good" and from which perspective you are looking at good; from the Professional level vs. the Amateur level.

From a professional level, I think a "good" handicap is anything 5-7 or better. In that range, you can certainly get closer to scratch with effective practice and hardwork and in some cases, reach teaching pro levels. From an amateur level, I strongly believe an index between 16-12 is a "good" level of golf. I have played golf with MANY random people and have seen some very interesting swings, shanks, etc etc .... Golf isn't an easy game by any means and is extremely challenging for the average amateur who works everyday, raises a family and practices maybe once a week. To hold anything below a 16 index is highly respectable when you factor in life. From that same level, anyting below a 12 into the single digits is down right fantastic if the same challenges exist...family, work, responsabilities etc...

At times, I think we forget how hard the game really is and forget what good really is

[easydraw]

Golf is Not a Game of Perfect . with that said, im pretty sure that there isnt a golfer out there that ever thinks he/she is good "enough". thats why we keep coming back

[cody west]

Golf is Not a Game of Perfect

some people say that golf is a game of who ever misses the hole the least times. but i think your good when you can play for money, anyone can go out on a day and have the round of their lives but can they do it when some kid in your group is annoying you and you turn to them and say "i will put $100 on these next 9 holes if you shut up once i take your money"

plus we all putt to much meaning behind the handicap. if you think about it handicap is only potential so who cares how good you could be because if you don't actually shoot that low pretty consistently it doesnt matter. just saying i have a friend who is a 1.4 and I'm a 0.3 but his scoring average is lower than myne and he beats me more than half the time because he consistently shoots 73,74 where i shoot about 75 but i will throw a round in the mid to upper 60's occasionally (my course is 74.5/141 so 75 is actually a really low score for that course)

[sacm3bill]

Oh I understand what a reverse sandbagger is or as someone recently put it, a vanity handicap. What I don't get is why someone would think that is more common than cheating by actual sandbagging.

Because sandbagging only helps if you're playing in handicapped competitions, and those that do so are a much smaller percentage than those who don't. And obviously, those that don't can have as much of a vanity cap as they want, with no consequences (other than hurting their partners if they ever *did* play a handicapped competition) .

[brgolf]

Because sandbagging only helps if you're playing in handicapped competitions, and those that do so are a much smaller percentage than those who don't. And obviously, those that don't can have as much of a vanity cap as they want, with no consequences (other than hurting their partners if they ever *did* play a handicapped competition) .

I'm not entirely familiar with the system in America but I admit to being shocked that people have moaned so often about sandbagging only for its impact to be negligible.

Is there something to be said for the prevalence of vanity handicaps and the average current usga average hc of 16.7? My maths might be well out but how much cheating would there have to be uncovered in order for the real figure to emerge say an average of 20? Everyone cheating by an average of 3 strokes, 50% of people cheating by 6 strokes, 25% of people cheating by 12 strokes, 10% of people cheating by 30 strokes. If people are arguing that cheating coul bring the average handicap down from 17.0 to 16.7 I'd believe it but it didn't occur to me that the point was being raised with regards to such fractional discrepencies. And how many cheaters would it take for an average usga handicap (male) to be 17 vs 16.7. Everyone cheating by .3 of a shot, 33% of people cheating by a shot, 10% of people cheating by 3 shots. Possibly.

[sean_miller]

I'm not entirely familiar with the system in America but I admit to being shocked that people have moaned so often about sandbagging only for its impact to be negligible.

I guess a good handicap is one you can play to 25% of the time. One that you beat by > 4 strokes consistently, in competition, is not a good one. It's a bad one - for you.

[sacm3bill]

I'm not entirely familiar with the system in America but I admit to being shocked that people have moaned so often about sandbagging only for its impact to be negligible.

Not sure if you're addressing my comments specifically, but since you quoted me I'll respond: I'm certainly not saying that sandbagging's impact is negligible. I was simply providing a possible explanation for why vanity handicaps might be more prevalent than sandbagging (i.e., because there are more golfers who *don't* play in competitions than those that do.) I doubt very many people who play in handicapped competitions are vanity handicappers. Those that *do* play and are sandbagging are definitely an issue, IMO. In fact it's why I stopped playing in handicapped competitions.

Is there something to be said for the prevalence of vanity handicaps and the average current usga average hc of 16.7?

Note that, as others have pointed out, you have to remember that the USGA only tracks people who *keep* a handicap. The actual number for *all golfers* is going to be a lot higher.

I don't quite follow what argument you're making in your subsequent comments, so I won't address those.

[James_Black]

Isn't the starting handicap for men 18 or something?

So 16.7 isn't that that much of a leap.

[sean_miller]

Isn't the starting handicap for men 18 or something?

Starting handicap? Do you mean where people move from triple bogey to double bogey for ESC?

[Paradox]

Isn't the starting handicap for men 18 or something?

If you're referring to the max, then no..its something like 36 or around there somewhere...basically 2 strokes per hole.

[James_Black]

Starting handicap? Do you mean where people move from triple bogey to double bogey for ESC?

when my dad put in his 3 scores for a handicap the max they could give him starting off was 17. I think it can move up but he doesn't play in competitions, just the occasional round of golf.

[sean_miller]

when my dad put in his 3 scores for a handicap the max they could give him starting off was 17.

I think we've already established that your local handicap dispensary is . . . I'm struggling for a superlative that's safe for my work computer.

[James_Black]

I think we've already established that your local handicap dispensary is . . . I'm struggling for a superlative that's safe for my work computer.

That's why I joined a new club lol.

I'm down to 20.4 after a couple of weeks, I'm playing 3 competitions in 3 days Sunday-Tuesday so I'm hoping to get down to a 16 handicap.

[BallStriker]

Exact same answer for everyone.........."just a few strokes lower than my current handicap."

[colin007]

the average guy i see on any of the courses in my area is about a 25-36. i can count the number of single digits that i have played with on 1 hand. they are few and far between, at least in my area.