Wilson STAFF vs Wilson STAFF's reputation

[stcjones]

In all seriousness, have you ever HIT their fat shaft clubs?  Go out and hit a set of D111 (or Di9) irons and tell us what you think before you throw rocks at them.  IF you want a set of irons that go DEAD straight where you are aiming then the Di9/Di11 will accomplish that for you.  Talk about ULTRA forgiving and nice feeling......Maltby really missed the ball on this one.   Now if you want to work the ball HARD (so to speak as you can manage mild fades and draws with the Di9/11's.....these may not be what you wantt.....YOU really low HC's may look down your nose at the Fat shaft technology.......but in the words of Rocco Mediate......"I'll take all the forgiveness I can get!" (Plays the x20's last I checked!!!)

[Bob63]

In many cases they are great club for the money.

[pope1086]

I believe they are the most underrated golf company in todays market. I played there fat shafts up until this year, and I hit them great. I picked up a nice set of used pi5 this winter and I love evening about them.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by Prairie Golfer

Wilson Staff clubs were very hgihly thought of when I played golf back in the 1980s. Coming back after fifteen years, I found a set of Wilson Staff irons I liked and hit well. I've always liked the balls too, and the price is right.

agree - I love Wilson balls.     They're the Rodney Dangerfield of golf balls - don't get any respect ...

[bradabco]

the staff line is extremely underrated... they earned their way in the running with tm, titleist, callaway, ping, mizuno, etc.

[Suge206]

I play their tour milled wedges and I like them a lot.  I wish the black ones were out when I got mine but I paid no higher than 70 and as low 32 brand new per wedge.

[Justin]

It shows the power of brandwashing, and why "Hot" lists are worthless.  W/S was a major player, fell to the wayside, then built themselves back up.  It wasn't that they started making inferior products all of a sudden at some point, they just cut way back on advertising.  Coincidentally, the biggest advertisers are the ones considered the "best", because apparently, if we don't see their commercials 100 times a day or see ad pages in the golf outlets they just don't compare at ALL.

[GaijinGolfer]

People can say, "Wilson sucks" all they want but the fact is that more major championships have been won by Wilson irons than by ANY other brand.

Wilson makes quality stuff, its just that they dont have a huge presence on tour, so people dont think they are any good.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

People can say, "Wilson sucks" all they want but the fact is that more major championships have been won by Wilson irons than by ANY other brand.

Wilson makes quality stuff, its just that they dont have a huge presence on tour, so people dont think they are any good.

The only time I ever heard someone say "Wilson sucks" is when they were listing reasons "Home Improvement" had jumped the shark.

[snowsurfer]

Wilson makes great stuff, they just really haven't marketed it well as of late.

I demoed their FG Tour Irons and their new FG62  blades yesterday and was very impressed. If I was in the market for new irons they would get serious consideration.

The FG tour ball is also great.

[handlez42]

a while back (spring 2011) i was in the market for irons and was only in for wilson staff to replace my Deep Red II distance irons. (true temper fatshaft massive cavity.) ive only been playing for a year. i was interested in the cast Ci9's and the forged Fg tours. I was worried the tours were too much for my game even though i had been getting better at a high (and rather alarming) rate. the golf store in my city is the only store to have Wilson Staff products. Not even the newest store (last 3 months) GolfETC has wilson. The golf pro there was also hitting the Fg Tours and was considering doing so for this season as well. he had me match the two up against eachother. they were similar to looks but performance and feel were obvious differences. i liked knowing what i was doing wrong with the forged set. after hitting a few i told him my concerns of the FG's and he assured me i was good enough to hit them. analyzing my swing to make sure i wasnt making any mistakes in my purchase. i was surprised.

Anyways!....

I had them fitted (shaft-grip) and have been playing them all this year. I wont lie it hurts to know im hitting shorter with these than most. my partners (not very golf literate) dont understand how they can hit a club or two longer than me from different distances....because they dont get how forged are softer, thus less power.... but they also dont realize how i can now hit shots on a dime. accuracy is now a norm and have recently started working on my knockdowns, stingers, draws and fades.

im more impressed with how well these irons fit to many different skill levels. the golf pro that fitted me i can only imagine has been playing for 25-30 years and yet im a year into golf and am capable of hitting the same, forged, midsize, players iron.

wilsons putters are top notch (ONLY the "888" series) but i putt left-handed opposed to hitting right and am a little peeved they dont make the 8882 (remake of the most iconic putter in golf history 8802) in left hand. i didnt like the 8881 so now i use a Yes! carolyne. Their fyrbid iron replacements and woods were in my eye-sight until i bought a tour edge 3 wood that bombs em'. but they still hit very straight, are very forgiving, and yet STILL very workable. and im considering them as a 3-iron/5-wood replacement(fybrid 19.5).... They have always somehow had a solid wedge. and i intend on getting FG tour wedges because of the looks and feel. Wilson created the sandwedge and helped bring it to the point of how important the club is to golf today.

Although , the feel of their drivers is not ideal. They seem to always be a few years behind in technology with drivers.(EVEN THOUGH I SAW A VIDEO OF PADDY HITTING A WHITE COLORED WILSON SPINE DRIVER a few years ago model) which means taylormade is a bunch of liars. they now have "variable face" technology which just makes clubs more forgiving but in terms of looks or even distance, they arent very good. They need some multi-material, multi-piece construction. Thats why paddy hit a TM r11 this year i think...instead of the boring DXi

i still feel wilson has THE-BEST line of clubs (possibly Adams Golf fits in there) that suit mostly every type of handicap.

Hybrid set for older, youth, and "careless" players. As well as a shaft that has two leading shaft materials (graphite+steel) in the Half+Half shaft.

SGI irons in the Di11 which i wouldnt be surprised if they rival in the top 3 in SGI iron distance (taylormade claims the longest) although i think Tour Edge Ex has em beat.

GI Ci9s that are also for the aspiring player wanting control and workability, without sacrificing distance.

And players forged in the new-age forged cavity back FG Tours as well as the traditional FG62's for the player who wants modern forging, with beautiful looks (by far the best looking blade on the market besides maybe the Adams MB)

This might be over the top for a post. (my apologies) but with a thread that has 4 pages of doubters and believers? Id like to say my piece.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by handlez42

I wont lie it hurts to know im hitting shorter with these than most. my partners (not very golf literate) dont understand how they can hit a club or two longer than me from different distances....because they dont get how forged are softer, thus less power....

I don't get it either, but this is the first time I've heard about this.

[mihi4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luu5

I don't get it either, but this is the first time I've heard about this.

I think, most of the time, this happens because of the stronger lofts of the SGI-clubs. Just comparing the Di11 and the FGTour (and it's the same with most Taylormade clubs)

FG TOUR:

Club	Loft	Lie	Left Handed	Length
#3	21.0	59.5°	Y	39.25"
#4	24.0	60.0°	Y	38.75"
#5	27.0	61.0°	Y	38.25"
#6	31.0	61.5°	Y	37.75"
#7	35.0	62.0°	Y	37.25"
#8	39.0	63.0°	Y	36.75"
#9	43.0	63.5°	Y	36.25"
PW	47.0	64.0°

Di11:

#3	18.0	59.5°	Y	39.5"
#4	22.0	60.0°	Y	39.0"
#5	25.0	61.0°	Y	38.5"
#6	29.0	61.5°	Y	38.0"
#7	32.0	62.0°	Y	37.5"
#8	36.0	63.0°	Y	37.0"
#9	39.0	63.5°	Y	36.5"
PW	43.0	64.0°	Y	36.0"
GW	46.0	64.0°	Y	36.0"
SW	55.0	64.0°	Y	36.0"

As you can see, the Di11 PW is the same club as the FG Tour 9 iron!

Also, the shafts in the Di11 are 0.25 inch longer than the FG Tour...

greetings

michi

[luu5]

Originally Posted by mihi4

Quote:

I think, most of the time, this happens because of the stronger lofts of the SGI-clubs. Just comparing the Di11 and the FGTour (and it's the same with most Taylormade clubs)

I did not want to go into this loft development as he was so convincing about the softness of the forged clubs

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by luu5

I did not want to go into this loft development as he was so convincing about the softness of the forged clubs

well the loft and composition an iron connect. the reason cast irons hit farther is simply because they are a harder metal. which means they pound the ball and put more energy into the ball much easier which is why they have less control.

Forged steel is much softer which is why most cases its compressed or pounded into the shape of an iron for precision vs. melted (cast). but because a forged iron is softer, it will keep in contact with the ball for "longer" AT CONTACT. Now i know this longer contact cant be more than what i can only imagine are nanoseconds (im not a scientist so idk if thats a real thing) but the more you think about how complex just a golf swing can be and say how much a fraction of a movement can possibly add/lose yardage, it isn't too far fetched.

and the reason cast irons (Di11) are able to be lower lofts is really a combination of a few things. because they transfer more energy into the ball for more distance they do not need a higher loft. the second thing is the actual design of the cavity. Cavity is not only created for forgiveness. the lower the cavity can go towards the bottom grooves (on the back side of course) means the lower the CG. and lower CG is a spec that shows throughout the bag (driver, fairway wood, hybrid.)

Note: check out the "sales pitch" for the FG62s(11') on the staff website. and notice how they mention (lower muscle slot) just means that the cg is lower (easier to get ball in the air) and that they can make for example, the pitching wedge 47 degrees opposed to "way back when" blades were HUGEEE i wouldnt be surprised if an avg pitching wedge was 49-50 degrees. mostly 50.

wedges are different i guess the higher the cg (not too high) the lower the trajectory? lower trajectory means more control? idk where i read this but it was an actual wedge on a companies website (for 2011) which mentioned the CG positioned ever-so-slightly higher to ensure a lower flight so that those high loft clubs dont go TOOO HIGH. could be just a way to avoid the players hands being incredibly further ahead of the club at address/contact.

[NuclearMike]

My Wilson Staff Di9 irons are SGI clubs but I can still fade or draw the ball when I need to and when I hit them solid they're really long, partially due to an increased loft but also due to their technology.  I'm guessing that the Di11s are even better.  I had a set of Staff irons in the early '80s and they were truly the club to own at the time.  I'm glad to own Staff again.

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by NuclearMike

My Wilson Staff Di9 irons are SGI clubs but I can still fade or draw the ball when I need to and when I hit them solid they're really long, partially due to an increased loft but also due to their technology.  I'm guessing that the Di11s are even better.  I had a set of Staff irons in the early '80s and they were truly the club to own at the time.  I'm glad to own Staff again.

im not saying it isnt possible. forgiveness and lower cg in some cases negate the spin put on the ball. its mostly feel. i know that theres a certain way to swing to get a certain feel. for instance i prefer a high draw and have been trying to make it more consistent. i just cant seem to find the fade for some reason. but i also know when i put a certain swing change i can hit it straight, and it still feels (at contact) like im trying to turn the ball back. i try to hit that shot in order to kick the ball left while still avoiding bend or hook on the ball (righty/right-left). my draw tends to land a bit softer where as my straight (left spin) shot tends to move alot more on the green.

other things are distance or trajectory controls.

i had Deep Red II Distance irons by wilson and i remember one particular shot where i was inside a 9 iron but did not feel comfortable hitting a wedge. so i tried swinging slower, and smoother. i hit it about normal 9 iron distance for me on a full shot. so i dropped a ball and tried to do the same thing, hit it lower even. but it did the exact same thing. flight and all.

now my FG tours which ive had for a season have much better control of distance. i sometimes will shorten my backswing and still come through the ball a bit faster than expected. probly because of the shafts i was fitted for when i bought these irons from Wilson (Nippon NS pro 950gh) are much MUCH lighter in gram weight then the DR2D's true temper fatshaft. (i think it weighed in the 120s? much like a TT Dynamic Gold.) i also think they might have a slightly softer tip, and now that im hitting much better and making much better compression contact, shots tend to go a bit higher,

[handlez42]

I have a more easily controversial product from WS on mind. the FG tour ball.

I've been reading reviews online. there are a surprising amount of dislikes on this ball. especially one guys on the dicks sporting goods website that said "bought a sleeve and liked them. good ball. but made in CHINA!" i thought that was a little ignorant considering its impossible to make a product without someone elses (some other countries) resources involved.

I am american. and i do know that wilson was a pretty large US based sports company in its prime days and have now extended to other countries. mostly europe like the GBD and along the brit isles. but thats neither here nor there!

ANYWAYS....!

I bought these balls for about 20 bucks (plus $6 s/h on eBay) and I compared them to two different companies and two different ball types.

1. Prov1: which titleist believes is a ball anybody can hit irregardless of swing speed or skill level (and I myself am one to agree with this notion SOMEWHAT: read on)

1. Bridgestone B330 RX: a ball that bridgestone feels is a ball more suited for players of not only an amateur skill level, but more importantly a common amateur swing speed (under 100 mph)

• In the bridgestone line, I find the B330 (normal tour ball) to be a bit too hard and harsh. Which is why they have made a softer, mid-compression, AM ball. Now this could easily be my opinion of a ball before the USGA and R&A; made the grooves rule regulation, which has revamped the entire market and every company to a soft cover style ball.

IMO i feel that the FG tour ball in some cases sits pretty much well in the middle of these two products (ProV1_FG Tour_B330-RX) in terms of appearance and marketing. As it has a soft cover like both, but neither tries to associate itself with a slower swing speed, or rival with the "overpriced" tour ball by Tileist.

Distance:

• When I first hit the ProV1 ("2010") model this year, i hit my longest, straightest drive of the year. It was on a particular par 5 at a local 9 hole course. With this ball, the distance is there, but only if you hit the club (at the time driver) correctly. if you turn it left or right you will obviously lose yardage. which is normal. iron distance didn't seem too long in comparison to off the tee though.
• The B330-RX is distance in a noticeably easier package. swing easy and this ball will go far. noticeable with irons as well as any club off the tee.

• The FG was tested more immediately after the ProV1, and i noticed around the same tee work as the proV1 with a slightly softer feel at contact vs. a slightly more solid feel compared to the RX. Distance was just as long as both, but off the turf with irons shots the distance was actually much longer by about 5-7 yards. ( say "much longer" because its hard to find distance with products that are easily comparable with technology advances so very fine in detail.)

Spin:

• The ProV1 created great spin, but at a price. The better you strike the ball (downward contact angle) the better you could spin. Working the ball was easily and controllable because of the feel of this ball (mentioned in last section at bottom). But all these things together allow a player to control many different things like spin and kicks angles off the green etc.
• The B330-RX for me generated ALOT more spin than I realized. mostly because of how easy it is to hit, and how easy it is to create distance, the ball would spin just as much as the ProV1. The downfall is controlling spin. If you plan to let a shot release a bit more, it is quite difficult considering these attributes i just mentioned. As well as side-to-side control is hard (for me) to control due to its incredibly soft feel at full shot impact.
• The FG however, like i said before. right in the middle. Easy spin and controllable and with the increased distance off the iron faces, clubbing down can help create more spin on a higher trajectory to help hold greens. side spin was noticeably less on miss hits in comparison to the ProV1 but not eliminated. Feel of contact is powerful, buttery, and controlled. Left-to-right movement is nicely balanced.

Green side/ Short game/ putting:

• The ProV1 has been the leader in the tour ball industry because its able to have this attribute as well as the others mentioned before. Soft cover and yet a solid feel on those finesse shots. Great distance control as well as spin. Checks up nicely on the greens and on green-side shots you can see it bumped and check when it hits the turf. off the putter it feels solid and soft at the same time, very strange feeling of control with the flatstick.
• The RX was a little more difficult to control in terms of pitch shots and green-side shots. Soft cover and impact sensation feel good but not when you over shoot, and ball spin doesn't show up. Easier distance in long game makes short game a little more worrying. On short shots i didnt feel there was much more spin as the ProV1 if any. Off the putter this ball is fantastic. Very soft and butterfly like sensation, yet doesn't over exceed distance when struck. Does tend to ask you to know your stroke-tempo a little more but helps A LOT on the greens.
• The FG for me had a similar sensation on pitch shots and short game arena shots, very soft and supple. Many turf reaction characteristics as the ProV1. The cover has a strange feel. Its as soft as the ProV1, but the cover material itself has a somewhat "sticky" feel. it was something i expected to fade off/away after a round or 2, but it didn't to my surprise. Off the flatstick this putter is just about in the middle of the two. Solid and controlled but soft and silky. Comparing the prov1 and the Rx isnt hard to notice the differences. but, when you throw the FG into the mix, it really confuses you because it has characteristics of both the ProV1 and the RX. which I like! (and id hope others do)

All in all the FG performed better than i expected. ALOT better. and should be a consideration to anybody hitting either one of the comparison balls i used. The reason this ball might be better than both is the price. I'm seeing them for around $35 and thats obviously less than the ProV1 and surprisingly (maybe not too surprising to most people) Less than the B330-RX. Most likely im surprised because I've seen and felt this ball in performance, and yet its much MUCH less.

Give it a try, most people hitting ProV1's will probably hate it because their pride and love is in the way. "A ball that is cheaper should NEVER play better! Blasphemy!" and the Bridgestone fan might consider it because its "easier" to hit than the ProV1 but has a little more feel than the RX which is key. (and is easier on the wallet)

Sorry for the Review, but people have the idea that they are just good for their irons. This is just one reason why those people are wrong.