Do you improve your lie when you play?

[DavidFehertysBike]

In a tournament if the rule is lift, clean, and cheat then I will. I would be stupid not to as everyone else is. Other than that I never improve my lie. Basically its cheating and if I play all my regular rounds off nothing but perfect lies whats gonna happen when tournaments come around that don't let you move it. You're screwed.

Bad analogy, try again.

Anyway, rough and fairways are what they are, i dont have a problem with bad lies in those areas. They're hard for any course to maintain. (This happened last season) But if i miss a green by 5 feet and get stuck in hardpan, that is utterly ridicuous. If im not playing in a tournament or money game, that ball is gettin moved. Especially if im going to harm the area even more by trying to play from it.

[iacas]

Bad analogy, try again.

No, his analogy was spot on. It's the same one I use when people complain about hitting out of divots. They "shouldn't" be there but they are, and unless you also put your ball behind trees when you're fortunate enough to have them kick out of the trees, you shouldn't try to "reverse" any perceived "bad luck" that you get too.

Anyway, rough and fairways are what they are, i dont have a problem with bad lies in those areas. They're hard for any course to maintain. (This happened last season) But if i miss a green by 5 feet and get stuck in hardpan, that is utterly ridicuous.

You need to familiarize yourself with the phrase "rub of the green."

Especially if im going to harm the area even more by trying to play from it.

Let the rationalization continue...

[DavidFehertysBike]

No, his analogy was spot on. It's the same one I use when people complain about hitting out of divots. They "shouldn't" be there but they are, and unless you also put your ball behind trees when you're fortunate enough to have them kick out of the trees, you shouldn't try to "reverse" any perceived "bad luck" that you get too.

I guess im upsetting the ghost of old tom morris inside of you all. I dont think its too much of a stretch to expect playable surfaces very close to the green. Unless that superintendant wants a divot in his fringe, im not playing from there.

[mirv]

i went with "other."

if i'm on a good quality course, then no, i won't improve my lie. i'll play it wherever it lands or call it unplayable if that's the case.

however, a lot of the courses i play on are just local munis (budget constraints, eh), and a lot of the time the fairways are less than perfect. less than acceptable even in some places. it's like playing in someone's backyard where the extent of their yard maintenance is just mowing it once a week. a "goat farm," as an acquaintance of mine put it once. that being the case, 3/4ths of the time, you're not going to find yourself with a good or even decent lie, even right in the middle of the fairway. so i'll nudge the ball a few inches. plus i tell myself, hey. i'm a 12 handicap. i'll start worrying about playing difficult lies when i know i can hit the ball well off a good lie.

[Leftygolfer]

I play it down once the season begins. For me, it is 3/27. I will take my bad breaks and my good ones. I love the feeling of getting up and down from a bad break (getting a hard pan lie around the green or a nest egg).

[NM Golf]

I guess im upsetting the ghost of old tom morris inside of you all. I dont think its too much of a stretch to expect playable surfaces very close to the green. Unless that superintendant wants a divot in his fringe, im not playing from there.

Tom Morris? No, I just believe in playing by the rules. How can I accept a good break like when my ball hits a tree and kicks back out in the fairway, then not accept a bad break when I end up in a bad lie. What I am supposed to believe I am only entitled to the up side? Plus I believe the whole thing eventually evens out. For every crap lie I might get in the fairway, I will eventually get a lucky break. Rub of the green goes both ways.

As far as expecting a playable surface next to a green well I am realistic enough to realize I am not a member at Augusta, and therfore will have to trudge my way through the fickleness of a municipal golf course's turf situation. Heck even if I did play at Augusta there are still divots to contend with. Its a slippery slope you have to deal with when you start deciding what you feel is acceptable as far as lies go on a golf course. Thats a pretty grey area, you might as well just bump it everywhere, there's no such thing really as just cheatin' a little.

[iacas]

I dont think its too much of a stretch to expect playable surfaces very close to the green. Unless that superintendant wants a divot in his fringe, im not playing from there.

More rationalization. What kind of shot would you play from "very close to the green" that'd take a divot. Chip shots, pitch shots... no divots.

And it may or may not be a "stretch," but it's certainly against the rules. But as they say, you're only cheating yourself, so in the end I really don't care (emphasis on "cheat" intended). One last thing: you should really adjust your handicap index from "4.5" to something more appropriate. No way you get to tout being a low handicapper while not following the Rules of Golf.

[Bump-n-MI]

I only improve my lie if I have a bad one...." SARCASM "

[DavidFehertysBike]

More rationalization. What kind of shot would you play from "very close to the green" that'd take a divot. Chip shots, pitch shots... no divots.

A shot were the only option i had to control my ball would be to hit down aggressivley. Which happed to me on poorly maintained fringes and greenside rough. So if i dont have to play from there, im not. Plain and simple.

Questioning my handicap because i wont play from a hole or hardpan two feet from a green? You have to be kidding me. I guess i must be a hacker..lol. If you live in PA how bout I come out there and show you how good i can be..lol. Name the place.

[RCF]

I voted other, but yes, under unusual circumstances i.e. an unnatural defect on the fairway and only with permission from the other player(s). Moreover, a mulligan is given when noise or loud chatter startles the golfer during his swing and with the permission of the other player(s).

[NM Golf]

A shot were the only option i had to control my ball would be to hit down aggressivley. Which happed to me on poorly maintained fringes and greenside rough. So if i dont have to play from there, im not. Plain and simple.

Exactly how far are you hitting this chip shot?

Questioning my handicap because i wont play from a hole or hardpan two feet from a green? You have to be kidding me. I guess i must be a hacker..lol. If you live in PA how bout I come out there and show you how good i can be..lol. Name the place.

Well technically if you bump the ball every time you feel the lie is "ridiculous" your scores are actually higher than you think. You cannot get a legitimate handicap index unless you play completely by the rules.

[Elvisliveson]

I voted other, but yes, under unusual circumstances i.e. an unnatural defect on the fairway and only with permission from the other player(s). Moreover, a mulligan is given when noise or loud chatter startles the golfer during his swing and with the permission of the other player(s).

So, when your ball hits the cart path and goes an extra thirty yards torwards the green, you put it back to the spot right before where it hit because it was "unatural", right?

[Leftygolfer]

The only person you are hurting is yourself if you don't play it down always (even those nasty bare lies around the green where you have no chance at getting it close)

[Fourputt]

The two prime tenets of golf:

1) Play the ball as it lies.

2) Play the course as you find it.

Doing anything different unless allowed under the rules just ain't the game I learned to play. Most of the rationalizing I've read here seems quite irrational to me. You'll never learn to play bad lies unless you actually play from bad lies.

One of the best feelings in golf is making a great shot from a crappy situation, whether that's threading a needle from the trees, picking the ball from a hardpan lie, hitting a clean shot from a fairway divot, or chipping close from a bad greenside lie. All it takes is focus, good technique, and the knowledge that you CAN do it because you've done it before.

I find it a bit astonishing that anyone who professes to have a 4.5 handicap would have to make excuses for a bad lie. I've never been close to that playing level in my life (lowest index ever was 9.6), yet I deal with such situations all the time, and I do so within the rules. It's just a normal part of playing our wonderful game.

[Jell0b0y]

Only when I am in the fairway on a extremely wet day. My home course fairways are really bad and doesn't have much bermuda. THere is actually a club rule that you can improve your lie because of the fairway condition. I usually don't figuring if I can hit on that I can hit it on anything.

[caad4rep]

Only time I move my ball is if my ball is in rocky soil . . . not going to ding up a club hitting in gravels.

Ditto, I'll only move it if it's to save a club.

[RCF]

So, when your ball hits the cart path and goes an extra thirty yards torwards the green, you put it back to the spot right before where it hit because it was "unatural", right?

Good question and I respect your comment, but that never happened in my experience. What should one do if there is a 2" deep body of water on the fairway or in a sand trap or if the ball comes to rest on an asphalt surface (that has happened to me)?

In addition, if one is playing with a foursome, and all agree to the stipulations in my prior post, should I argue? What's wrong with "best ball?"

[iacas]

A shot were the only option i had to control my ball would be to hit down aggressivley.

Uhm, right. I face a ton of those shots where I'd take divots from right next to the green. Oy. Yeah, no...

And you know, if I ever do, I will take the divot (and then replace it) and not move the ball. Simplest rule of golf to understand: play it as it lies.

So if i dont have to play from there, im not. Plain and simple.

That's the point - you DO have to play from there.

Questioning my handicap because i wont play from a hole or hardpan two feet from a green?

No, I'm not "questioning" your handicap. I'm flat out telling you that your handicap is not legitimate. You apparently cheat quite frequently.

If you live in PA how bout I come out there and show you how good i can be..lol. Name the place.

Yeah,

northwestern PA. What are you, 12?