What it Takes to Go Pro

[Shorty]

It's because they've put in the hours. People only see the score on the leader board, but they don't see the thousands of hours the players have spent on the practice range and on the putting green to get to that level.

For every one of those guys there are a thousand who have worked just as hard and have not made it. Just because all successful golfers have that in common does not mean that it is the one necessary ingredient.

[Shorty]

I hate to be rude, but i dont think people realize just how good tour players are. My home course hosts the Cox Classic , so I get a chance to compare myself with Nationwide Players as far as scores go.

Absolutely 100%, totally, completely agree.

[BigBoy]

"Scratch is shit."

this is something I couldn't believe even two years ago, when I played very casually with my buddies, and the one serious golfer was about a 8 index. He seemed like the best golfer ever. To imagine a scratch golfer at that point led to images like I saw when I'd go to Tour events. I thought it must be almost identical. Maybe the pros were just a little better at putting, I thought.

Then the past two years, I've had the pleasure of playing with a couple of honest scratch golfers several times. While their games are certainly impressive, it still didn't resemble the guys between the ropes I had watched up close. It was a real eye opener to me. It is a different level. The pro I took lessons from here in Nashville told me about a time when he was out on the range giving a lesson, and all the sudden he heard a noise that he never heard there before. Then he heard it again. He turned around and Brandt Snedeker was at the club hitting a bucket. About 50 feet away. The sound was so distinguishable that the pro realized it even in the middle of providing a lesson amongst 15 or 20 other people hitting balls.

[NotAStick]

If it is that impossible, how are there so many people on tour all over the world? I understand that the number of players are small considering how many people play golf now, but to say it is impossible...I don't buy into it.

I call BS.

Your perception of their game is meaningless. I would bet I could go out and hit more GIR than Phil Michelson 5% of the time, but I'd be willing to bet he would still beat me. There are subtle aspects to a player's game that may not be visible, but make a substantial difference. I've caddied for tour players and played with tour players and I've even beat a few mini-tour players, but my game doesn't even hold a candle to theirs. Not even close. Just because he had a bad day and shot 73 and I shot 71 doesn't make me better. Because that's the worst he ever shoots. He posted a 64 against my 75 the next day. It's not where your best shots go. I stick an approach shot to 3 feet now and then, just like Phil or Sergio. Maybe not as often, but its easy to perceive you can keep pace with them when you hit a few shots per round BETTER than them. But when I miss my approach shot, I'm much more likely to make bogey. When I do something funky with my swing off the tee, I'm much more likely to make a double bogey and when I hit an average iron approach shot, I'm MUCH less likely to sink the birdie putt anyway. In order to simply get a PGA Tour card, you have to shoot (this year) -19 over 5 rounds at one of the hardest courses in the world (The PGA West Stadium Course). I've played to as low as a +2 and have (once in my life) put together 4 straight rounds in the 60s at a course of moderate difficulty. That's pretty exceptional by most people's standards, but I know I probably won't do it again unless I win the lotto and get back to practicing 30+ hours per week, like I was. It might be my game and style, but in my experience, a legit PGA tour event generally plays maybe 4 shots harder than the course does under normal conditions, due to greens, pin placements, rough, etc. That's not accounting for the pressure of competition. Not to mention, even under "daily play" conditions, the tees they play from generally are rated to about 75+. I would put the rating of an average tour course at around 78-79 and a USGA national event around 80-83, in my experience. To go out and shoot a season-long scoring average (to stay in the top 125) around 71 is pretty impressive. I think a legit PGA Tour contender is averaging at least 5-6 strokes under the rating on a regular basis and by my estimation, would carry about a +7 handicap if it was accurately calculated with a modified course rating for tournament conditions. If a player shoots a few rounds of 74 and misses the cut, his scoring differentials are still -3. Even someone who misses 8 cuts in a row would probably play to a +2 to +4 handicap. I'm absolutely convinced Tiger plays to around a +12, for comparison sake. I think that is what the quote by Travino mentioned above was saying. If you can't walk out on a championship course and have a legit feeling that you can break 70, you aren't even close. If you know someone who can walk onto any random "real" championship course (7000+ yards, 74+ rating) and expect shoot in the 60s, his handicap would be around +5 or +6 (or better), which puts him in a pretty insane elite group and he should think about a legit chance of making money as a pro. Worse than +5 and he doesn't have a chance. Then again, I know a few guys who have a fun time going out and playing 3 or 4 events on the "Great Lakes Tour" of southern Ontario, where anyone who can cough up the $500 entry fee and give up his amateur status can play.. and where 6th place pays.... $500 and a win is worth $10k. They've never won anything, though they are probably about +1 handicap golfers. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by "tour pro" because that's not what I mean. I used to think like you until I actually played PGA caliber courses and carried their bags around during play. I was pretty floored by the ball-striking of the guy I caddied for and he only played a few years bouncing between the PGA and Nationwide tour before giving up. He would go out to one of the hardest courses in the city and shoot in the 60s every time while talking to his girlfriend on his cell and putting with his eyes closed (serious). The course ended up getting redesigned because it was "too hard" for members, being rated around 76. Anyway... I think you're lacking insight into this one. That's all. Those guys are good... Damn good.

[iacas]

I think a legit PGA Tour contender is averaging at least 5-6 strokes under the rating on a regular basis and by my estimation, would carry about a +7 handicap if it was accurately calculated with a modified course rating for tournament conditions. If a player shoots a few rounds of 74 and misses the cut, his scoring differentials are still -3.

Not quite. If the rating is 77 and the slope is 148, for example, he'd be a +2.3. The slope minimizes their handicap index the farther under the rating they go.

The average guy on the PGA Tour that just keeps his card plays to about a +4. http://thesandtrap.com/the_numbers_g...es_of_the_pros

[TN94z]

I hate to be rude, but i dont think people realize just how good tour players are. My home course hosts the Cox Classic , so I get a chance to compare myself with Nationwide Players as far as scores go.

It's not rude and I very much realize how "good these guys are." I have watched MANY range sessions and tournaments in my 31 years and I can see that these guys are on a totally different level. I am not knocking their skill at all.

I know a ton of those so called +2 handicaps that want to make it on the tour.

That is really what I am trying to say. I mean so many people think this is just something that can never be accomplished but obviously it can because we watch these guys on tv every weekend.

I call BS.

What exactly do you call BS on? My friends that went pro in baseball? The PGA pro at my club that got beat? My friend that is scratch from the tips that beat him? I am confused.

My perception of whose game is meaningless? I know exactly what the pros can do and have seen it mulitple times. I know the difference in the sounds of the balls they hit because I have spent huge amounts of time at tournaments watching their range sessions. I understand that the courses they play on are harder. I know all of this stuff that you just spouted out. It still doesn't change my opinion that you can make it on tour. If it was that crazy, how are we watching these guys on tv day in and day out? I understand that if a guy is a 30 handicap when he is 30 years old that it probably isn't going to happen. But I also think that you don't have to be a scratch player at 10 years old to make it either. It all comes down to scoring on a consistent basis on any course. If your scores are low then they are low no matter what kind of swing you have. I'm sorry but to say my perception of the game is meaningless......nevermind

[Leftygolfer]

I believe if you are not a plus handicap in HS you have about the same chance of becoming a tour pro as getting struck by lightning. Sure there are examples of people who were not the number one college golfer or weren't that good when they were 17, but those are the excepts. 99% of PGA players were studs at 7 years old, shooting under par at 12, and won their state ams at 15. Those guys are unreal. If you are a 10 and think you have a shot at age 20, you are kidding yourself. You could be a good ametuer player with hard work, length, and talent but you have no shot at being a tour pro at any level.

[TN94z]

I believe if you are not a plus handicap in HS you have about the same chance of becoming a tour pro as getting struck by lightning. Sure there are examples of people who were not the number one college golfer or weren't that good when they were 17, but those are the excepts. 99% of PGA players were studs at 7 years old, shooting under par at 12, and won their state ams at 15. Those guys are unreal. If you are a 10 and think you have a shot at age 20, you are kidding yourself. You could be a good ametuer player with hard work, length, and talent but you have no shot at being a tour pro at any level.

I agree with you on this. I definitely think that you have be at a certain level before the age of 20. I am basically just making hypothetical points to argue the point that making it to the tour is impossible.

[Cesar]

99% of PGA players were studs at 7 years old, shooting under par at 12, and won their state ams at 15.

Depends on the state...Tiger was never able to bag the California State Am even while winning the US Am.

[SubPar]

... how are there so many people on tour all over the world? I understand that the number of players are small considering how many people play golf now, but to say it is impossible...I don't buy into it...

Out of the millions of people playing golf the guys in the top 1000 make up a

very small percentage who are the best of the best. And the guys ranked over 400 struggle to make a living on Tour. I've heard it said that the gap in ability between a scratch club pro and touring pro is the same as the gap between a 15 handicap and a scratch club pro. I've never mentioned that to a player with a 1 handicap or better who disagreed with that assesment. A lot of guys go from a 10 handicap to a 6 and think they will just keep going lower, only to discover that each point becomes exponentially more difficult to shave off. Five years ago Billy Andrade's scoring average was 71.12 with a world rank of 157 and he made over a million dollars. This year his scoring average has slipped to 72.59 with a ranking of 919 and he's made $19,654 in 13 events. Unless you have some wins in your past that produce fat sponsorship deals, like Duval had, it is not easy to even cover your expenses once you fall below a given level. SubPar

[OCdude12]

Alright, how about the chances of a 23 year old with a 4.2 index, full time job, but has access to a great facility that I could spend hours upon hours at? By senior year of high school I was about 1.5 but never went after the playing in college thing and now am realizing maybe I want to play competitive golf again. This is the first summer I've started playing in local amateur tournaments again and have done okay so far with still a couple more to go.

I don't practice much at all, maybe a bucket here and there every few weeks and don't really spend much time on the putting green or chipping green, but can get out for 9 or 18 about 7-8 times during a great month for golf. I do swing a lot in my house though and just look in a mirror/window to see if it looks right, so I guess that counts as practice. Not having a car is one of the main things holding me back from practicing more, but I think at least in the next couple years if I could practice more, I'd be competing in these NCGA events. I don't know who said it above, but I think thats what everyone should focus on, setting a goal, working for that goal and just get to the next level, whatever that is, before thinking about your next goal.

[Leftygolfer]

Depends on the state...Tiger was never able to bag the California State Am even while winning the US Am.

How many junior tourements did tiger win in a row. It is something rediculous like 15 or 20. No time to look up. But he definitely supports my belief that there is something special and different in the people who really make it. It was evident from the first time he picked up a club.

[Cesar]

How many junior tourements did tiger win in a row. It is something rediculous like 15 or 20. No time to look up. But he definitely supports my belief that there is something special and different in the people who really make it. It was evident from the first time he picked up a club.

He won a lot of junior tournaments, almost everyone he played. I know, I competed against him and got my arse spanked on several occasions.

I was just pointing out than not all state amateurs are created equal. The Cal Am is a tough nut to crack. For a 15 year old to win it would be something pretty special. Tiger is on an entirely different level though. If you're comparing yourself to him, then you're going to fall short everytime. You don't need to be "out this planet" good like him to make a decent living playing golf, but you need to be good. Damn good. For someone to not be at least scratch and winning tournaments against quality competition by the time they finish high school, they'd probably stand a better chance at winning the lottery TWICE before making it on the PGA Tour. Like others have said, get to a +4, win a lot of local tournaments, some bigger state tournaments, and seriously compete on a national level as an amateur before you can even remotely consider going pro.

[pittpanther]

Like others have said, get to a +4, win a lot of local tournaments, some bigger state tournaments, and seriously compete on a national level as an amateur before you can even remotely consider going pro.

This guy did exactly what you said:

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/m...or_the_masters I don't know his handicap, but he won the MS State Amat in 2007, and won the US Amat in 2008, which comes with an automatic invite to the Masters. The perfect opportunity to compare yourself against the PGA pros, on a PGA-level course. You also are allowed unlimited rounds on the course, leading up to the actual event. Of course, unless you live in Augusta, the bills will start to run up. Notice that he had to hold a fundraiser to help pay his expenses to go to the Masters - the estimate was upwards of $10,000(!). Not sure where that estimate comes from... He did not make the cut, btw...

[tofur99]

So I'm a 6 index, 19 years old, have been mostly self taught with sporadic lessons for almost a decade, clubhead speed is 119-125 w/ driver, 100-110 with 6 iron, and I have "tour ballflight and spin"(my shots really do look the spitting image of pro's, I went to a PGA event for the first time a year ago expecting these god like shots, and was surprisingly un-impressed with the ballflight and spin, but it was their smooth swings that got me). I have been told by multiple people that if I took the game seriously and went anywhere near the practice green I would drop into the + range within months. I love golf and since someone injecting the idea of pursuing it as a career into my head I can't get it out. I also love competition and almost always play better in tournaments than meaningless practice rounds.

So, I have financial backing and the means and motive, you guys think It would be worth making it my life? (Nothing else is going on in it so far)

All the other posts make it sound impossible but I just don't believe its that hard if you put enough practice into it and focus all your energy on it.

[Cesar]

This guy did exactly what you said:

What an awesome story, thanks for sharing. That's my dream right there.

It would obviously be much sweeter to make the cut, but for a working family man, what could be better than getting to play a bunch of practice rounds at Augusta and get to compete in the Masters?

[SpringBokVol]

So I'm a 6 index, 19 years old, have been mostly self taught with sporadic lessons for almost a decade, clubhead speed is 119-125 w/ driver, 100-110 with 6 iron, and I have "tour ballflight and spin"(my shots really do look the spitting image of pro's, I went to a PGA event for the first time a year ago expecting these god like shots, and was surprisingly un-impressed with the ballflight and spin, but it was their smooth swings that got me). I have been told by multiple people that if I took the game seriously and went anywhere near the practice green I would drop into the + range within months. I love golf and since someone injecting the idea of pursuing it as a career into my head I can't get it out. I also love competition and almost always play better in tournaments than meaningless practice rounds.

As others have said, you would need to get to +4 range by age 24. If you can do that while winning or finishing in the top 5 on the national amateur level then you have a shot.

And it sounds like nothing is holding you back, so go for it. If I had time and money I would do it. I have always had the talent to be scratch, but not the time or money to go further.

[Cesar]

So I'm a 6 index, 19 years old, have been mostly self taught with sporadic lessons for almost a decade, clubhead speed is 119-125 w/ driver, 100-110 with 6 iron, and I have "tour ballflight and spin"(my shots really do look the spitting image of pro's, I went to a PGA event for the first time a year ago expecting these god like shots, and was surprisingly un-impressed with the ballflight and spin, but it was their smooth swings that got me). I have been told by multiple people that if I took the game seriously and went anywhere near the practice green I would drop into the + range within months. I love golf and since someone injecting the idea of pursuing it as a career into my head I can't get it out. I also love competition and almost always play better in tournaments than meaningless practice rounds.

Go for it dude. What do you have to lose? Just make sure you give it your best so you don't have any regrets and let the chips fall where they may.

You have to take it seriously though. Treat it like a full time job. Doesn't mean you can't have fun and enjoy it, but to be a professional you need to behave like one. Worst case scenario is you become the best golfer you can possibly be, like that's a bad thing.