Do you think good golfers get into more trouble than they should when driving?

[rckwd]

I was just watching Geoff Ogilvy hit into the left ruff and was thinking, Do you think good golfers get into more trouble than they should when driving? As bad as a player as I am, I seldom miss a fairway. You see pros all the time miss fairways and I was thinking maybe it is because they are so good that they get into trouble trying to shape shots instead of just trying to go down the center. I know Anthony Kim once said as he was playing with Tiger on tv's "Playing Lessons" he just tries to hit the center of the fairway whereas Tiger works the ball right/left/high/low.

I know Jack said he was such a different player than Arnie because he always played it safe whereas Arnie was a go for broke kind of player.

I know we cant speak for the pros but do you think they would do better if they just shot for the center of the fairways? Or do you think the majority of them do?

[chriskzoo]

Most pros are now bomb and gouge. They would rather be in the rough with a wedge in their hand than playing a little safer and hitting a 6 or 7 iron into the green. I'm interested to see how the new groove rules affect them - I think it will only help guys like Tiger.

[Phil-Mick#1]

I honestly believe there are two kinds of golfers in the world, "Hacks and Tour players..."

I know, I know...if you're a +1 or scratch or even a 9 handicap you're not a hack. The reference is just to point how much of a huge, HUGE gap there is between them and everyone else...



These guys play course swhere they have to work the bal off the tee and put it in certian spots to be able to attack certian pins.
Fred Funk hits almost every fairway, but he is a lot shorter and that hurts him on a lot of courses...

[opie]

Well. I think 1 important part to remember is their fairways are a lot narrower than ours. 2nd.. the hole is a lot longer so the 5 iron off the tee really isn't going to cut it. 3rd. the longer you hit it the easier it is to get in trouble. wayward shots get worse

And then there's the amount they shape the ball vs the doglegs etc.. Makes for some misses

[rckwd]

Most pros are now bomb and gouge. They would rather be in the rough with a wedge in their hand than playing a little safer and hitting a 6 or 7 iron into the green. I'm interested to see how the new groove rules affect them - I think it will only help guys like Tiger.

I agree...and I think that is the "main" reason the new grooves are coming because players dont mind coming out of the rough.

[David in FL]

I honestly believe there are two kinds of golfers in the world, "Hacks and Tour players..."

I resemble that remark.....!

[senorchipotle]

I was just watching Geoff Ogilvy hit into the left ruff and was thinking, Do you think good golfers get into more trouble than they should when driving? As bad as a player as I am, I seldom miss a fairway. You see pros all the time miss fairways and I was thinking maybe it is because they are so good that they get into trouble trying to shape shots instead of just trying to go down the center. I know Anthony Kim once said as he was playing with Tiger on tv's "Playing Lessons" he just tries to hit the center of the fairway whereas Tiger works the ball right/left/high/low.

i guess it all depends on how far you hit your driver. if you are a longer driver 285+, you tend to get into a lot more trouble than someone who hits it 250. there's a lot more room for error. most good golfers can hit a driver 250 straight into the fairway a good percentage of the time, but that's not going to get you any eagles.

[deronsizemore]

Fairways aren't as wide on the PGA Tour, the fairways are usually hard and roll out a more and tour players hit is 90+ yards on average past what the regular golfer does does. All those things together = less fairways.

Take Geoff out to your local muni and I'm betting he won't miss a fairway or green all day.

[Shindig]

There was a good golfer who won the 1995 British Open. At the 72nd hole, he pulls out driver, and Jack says "put it away John" (in the booth). He went on to par the hole and eventually win the championship.

He parred the hole in the first two rounds, too. But in the 3rd round, he played it "safe" with an iron off the tee and made double bogey.


Do good golfers get in more trouble when they aren't hitting driver? I don't know. Despite the extra loft, fairway woods aren't as forgiving off the tee as a driver. Maybe they used to be a better bet.

[iacas]

Fairways aren't as wide on the PGA Tour

Unless you're at a resort course, I think a lot of the fairways on the PGA Tour are wider than the fairways most normal people play.

Lake View CC averages 22 yards or so of width. A tournament I'm playing at Lake Shore CC next week probably averages well under 20 - like 17 or 18. You know it's bad when I go to the U.S. Open at Oakmont and my eyes can't believe how wide the fairways are. PGA Tour courses have two rows of sprinklers. A lot of the courses average golfers play have one row, down the middle, and the fairway is about as wide as they'll spray. That may be a thing for the northeast - we're also crowded by trees, after all - but I know it's rare when I play a course with fairways as wide as those I've seen on the PGA Tour.

[pinhigh27]

Most pros are now bomb and gouge. They would rather be in the rough with a wedge in their hand than playing a little safer and hitting a 6 or 7 iron into the green. I'm interested to see how the new groove rules affect them - I think it will only help guys like Tiger.

I fail to see how it would help Tiger, as he is a bomb and gouger himself.

[deronsizemore]

Unless you're at a resort course, I think a lot of the fairways on the PGA Tour are wider than the fairways most normal people play.

Well you've definitely seen more live golf than I have, so I'll take your word for it. Seems the announcers are always talking about how tight the fairways are, etc. though. A lot of the courses around here it seems like you can hit it all over the place and still catch some fairway or close it.

[iacas]

I fail to see how it would help Tiger, as he is a bomb and gouger himself.

Did I miss the memo? Is today opposite day?

Just because he hits the ball far doesn't make him a bomb and gouger. He's in the top five players who are the OPPOSITE of bomb and gouge.

[imtomtomim]

it's not really that better players miss more fairways, it's more like, the longer you are, the less accurate you get. If I'm only driving the ball 100 yards, it's most likely gonna be in the fairway even if I miss just because the ball isnt' gonna go out as far off line. That's all.

[pittpanther]

Well. I think 1 important part to remember is their fairways are a lot narrower than ours.

What?!?!? PGA tour fairways are a dream compared to the tracks I play.

PGA tour events always talk about 'first cut, second cut,' blah, blah... You miss the fairway at one public course near me and you are in the trees - roots, dirt, fallen leaves etc. None of this multiple-cut stuff that the tour guys have. The local muni or public course tends to have to squeeze themselves into limited space, which leads to narrower fairways than the country clubs on the PGA tour. I still say, if you bring a PGA player to a muni course, WITHOUT a caddy, WITHOUT two weeks to prepare and map out the course in a yardage book, and without 1,000 fans to find their lost balls, they would not shoot as well as some of you guys think. That being said, they would still smoke ME by 30 strokes or so.

[deronsizemore]

I still say, if you bring a PGA player to a muni course, WITHOUT a caddy, WITHOUT two weeks to prepare and map out the course in a yardage book, and without 1,000 fans to find their lost balls, they would not shoot as well as some of you guys think.

You're joking right? A lot of the PGA Tour Players (if not most of them) grew up playing on muni courses, so it's not like they've never played them and have never played rounds without spotters. Sure, there would be some guys lose some balls, that's golf, but those guys hit the ball so solid that they just don't hit it that far offline that they cannot find their ball. Sure the greens wouldn't roll as smooth either so that would lead to maybe a putt (at most two putts) missed that usually would go in per round. The big thing is that the greens on most municipal courses are small, so you give these guys driver wedge into every hole with small greens, that means they are going to have a lot of 15 footers and closer which equals a ton of birdies and eagles. I've heard people say this on more than a few occasions and I just feel like it's the amateur's way to feel better about their game by tricking themselves into believing the tour guys aren't as good as they seem to be. I'm curious if you've ever been to a tour event?

[pittpanther]

I've heard people say this on more than a few occasions and I just feel like it's the amateur's way to feel better about their game by tricking themselves into believing the tour guys aren't as good as they seem to be.

Volunteered at the Viking the past two years. Watched Will MacKenzie in the overtime hole, hit an amazing hybrid second shot, over water, while the other two guys had to lay up.

Regardless, you are correct - there have been many comments inferring that the PGA pros wouldn't shoot so well without the cushy extras they have on the tour (caddy, no lost balls, multiple rounds to prepare, yardage books, etc). After giving this some thought, here's my take on why you see these comments. Golf is not a game of "player vs player. " Instead it is "player vs the course." What I mean by that is there is nothing than one player can do to affect another player - you can't play "defense," if you will... Therefore, if these guys really walked on water, there's no reason that someone should shoot -20 this weekend, and then shoot over par the next 10 weekends. It's the lack of any kind of consistency that makes people think that PGA pros, while better than anyone else, still leave a lot to be desired. Sure, these guys on any given day, can hit an amazing shot. But they're just as likely to drop it in the water on their next hole. I see an EXTREME lack of consistency across most of the PGA pros. Win a tournament, then disappear for weeks or months (or years, sometimes - what happened to Jesper Parnevik?). Like I said, no one is playing defense against you - if they are so good, why aren't they all shooting under par every week? Cut line should be -10 each week. But it's not. Why does Tom Watson disappear for a decade, then suddenly here he is shooting 65? Doesn't make sense - if he can shoot 65 at Turnburry, why can't he get at least a 70 at Augusta? No consistency. Check the leaderboards during the season. There is a core of about 20 guys who always finish near the top (Furyk, for example), but everyone else is scrambling, just trying to stay above the cut line. Don't get me wrong, I know they would spank my ass and send me home crying for my mother. But I see no reason to deify these guys - they're human, and they often make mistakes on the course. It's like basketball players shooting free throws. There's no reason that every player in the league can't shoot 90% from the line. But most don't. The top 20 players in the NBA do, but the rest are scrambling to hit 75%. For the same reason I lambaste the NBA players for being lazy at the free throw line. I don't do it because it makes me feel better about my own hoops game.

[CG031]

Golf is not a game of "player vs player. " Instead it is "player vs the course." What I mean by that is there is nothing than one player can do to affect another player - you can't play "defense," if you will... Therefore, if these guys really walked on water, there's no reason that someone should shoot -20 this weekend, and then shoot over par the next 10 weekends. It's the lack of any kind of

Because think of how many great players there are in the World. Then thing of how cruel a game golf is. Then you realize they are human beings. Unlike Tiger ;) and that is why you don't 'hear' about these guys every week.

Golf on the Tour, European and PGA, is a complete GRIND. The schedule, the field, the amount of players fighting each and every week for money, it's a total grind out there. Then you consider the fact that a lot of the times they are playing some of the tougher courses in the World, and you can find out why they aren't always shooting -10 in each tournament...