Tiger missing Turnberry cut...

[mcfc_nick]

I wasn't basing my claim only on the pitiful performance this week, just one in a catalogue of chinks in his armour. I'm not even saying he's not the best golfer in the world, he probably is, even on current form. My objection (if you actually read my post "mate") is the way he's revered like some kind of deity. Commentators, magazine journalists and posters on this site are under the missapprehension that we're alive in the time of the great one, we're not.

im sorry but he is the best player to ever play the game, the guy has won 68 times with 14 majors and the guy's career is no way near over, he will pass nicklaus' major total and snead's winning total, if he doesnt i will be in absolute shock anyway, i mean the guy was away for almost a year and came back and already has won 3 times in 9 stroke play events after surgery! he is phenominal but just had an off week!

[powerfader]

im sorry but he is the best player to ever play the game, the guy has won 68 times with 14 majors and the guy's career is no way near over, he will pass nicklaus' major total and snead's winning total, if he doesnt i will be in absolute shock anyway, i mean the guy was away for almost a year and came back and already has won 3 times in 9 stroke play events after surgery! he is phenominal but just had an off week!

In all likelyhood he will pass Nicklaus' record and everyone elses for that matter, but you can't say with any finality that he's the best player of all time. Tiger has broken course records because he rode the crest of the technological revolution in golf that made a mockery of tracks that couldn't update quickly enough.

He is the best player in world, has been for 10 years or so but anyone who's watched golf for any length of time would agree that the field has been weak in that period. Imagine Snead, Hogan, Jones, Palmer, Player and Nicklaus himself with modern equipment and training (mental and physical). Comparing players over history purely on the amount of trophies they won is the simplest way but it leaves out all the variables I've mentioned.

[wedge player]

. Imagine Snead, Hogan, Jones, Palmer, Player and Nicklaus himself with modern equipment and training (mental and physical). Comparing players over history purely on the amount of trophies they won is the simplest way but it leaves out all the variables I've mentioned.

well in my eyes i believe if any mentioned they could have had the mental and physical training if they so desired.tiger has brought that into the game.yes the equipment is better.and those players were not all in thier prime playing eachother one would get old and a new "young" gun came in to take over.i mean take palmer and nicklaus jack was just coming in as arnie was getting out of his prime.so why hate on tiger,hw will surpass all records.and to me that means best ever.i mean when u think jack you think 18 majors=greatest ever whats so differant?

[mcfc_nick]

In all likelyhood he will pass Nicklaus' record and everyone elses for that matter, but you can't say with any finality that he's the best player of all time. Tiger has broken course records because he rode the crest of the technological revolution in golf that made a mockery of tracks that couldn't update quickly enough.

fair enough, i agree that it is difficult to compare different generations of players but we'll have to agree to disagree then.

[iacas]

you can't say with any finality that he's the best player of all time.

Sure he can. That's his opinion.

Tiger has broken course records because he rode the crest of the technological revolution in golf that made a mockery of tracks that couldn't update quickly enough.

And he was competing against players using the same equipment.

And Tiger was actually one of the last players to move up to the newer equipment - he stuck with a small, short, steel-shafted driver longer than virtually everyone else.

He is the best player in world, has been for 10 years or so but anyone who's watched golf for any length of time would agree that the field has been weak in that period.

You were born in 1985. I don't think you're the guy to tell us about watching golf "for any length of time." And I disagree. The field is stronger these days than it's ever been. Jack had to beat fewer quality players than Tiger does, and Hogan less than Jack.

Comparing players over history purely on the amount of trophies they won is the simplest way but it leaves out all the variables I've mentioned.

And you're ignoring the fact that players of similar eras have the same equipment, so winning is still a good measure.

Now, to all: If you want to discuss Tiger vs. Jack, do so in the other thread that's already set up for that purpose. This discussion is about Tiger, Turnberry, and his failure to make the cut for the second time in a major as a pro.

[BASHERBAKER69]

I think it will take a while for Tiger to win another major. Tiger missed the cut by a fraction and if he had have made the cut he would be a contender for the Claret Jug over this weekend!... Personally I would like Tiger to tone down his muscles, spend a little less time in the gym and even more time on his game.

[mcfc_nick]

I think it will take a while for Tiger to win another major. Tiger missed the cut by a fraction and if he had have made the cut he would be a contender for the Claret Jug over this weekend!... Personally I would like Tiger to tone down his muscles, spend a little less time in the gym and even more time on his game.

how do you know how much or little time he spends on his game i mean personally i believe he spends a huge amount of time on it, he went straight to the range after his round on thursday to try to iron out his faults! in this day and age you need to hit it a mile and if he is physically fit he obviously will not lose tournaments by getting tired towards the latter end of the tournament!

[alcorn]

I think if Tom wasn't going into moving day as the leader then it would be a horrible thing to have neither tiger nor phil in there. Look at it like this, with the big trees out of the way the sun will shine on the smaller ones.

[kris]

Ok this is Tiger's 2ND MC in a major in his career. It happens every now and then even to the best. Can we not just look on this as an off week for the best player in the world rather than proof that he's not as good as people say he is?

[Acropo]

Tiger missing the cut will KILL the ratings on this event though.

Don't think so. Watson leading is a great story - and when people take a look at the leader board they will see we have a potential classic, just waiting to unfold.

Is there anyne who has made the cut who is NOT capable of winning? I think it will be fabulous. (And the fact that Tiger has not made the cut may attract ratings to find out what is going on...)

[iacas]

Don't think so. Watson leading is a great story - and when people take a look at the leader board they will see we have a potential classic, just waiting to unfold.

Golfers will almost always watch (or record).

Tiger attracts the casual fans or the non-golf fans (the "celebrity" fans). The ratings will be down with Tiger (and to lesser extent) Phil not playing the weekend.

[nevets88]

Just curious, anyone know how many cuts Nicklaus, Watson, Snead and Hogan missed?

I'm sure TGC or ESPN put up a graphic, but I missed it. Of course, it's not an exact comparison, but it would be interesting to see.

[iacas]

Just curious, anyone know how many cuts Nicklaus, Watson, Snead and Hogan missed?

Nicklaus missed six in his pro days and before 1988, at which point he started missing them fairly often.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Nicklaus Watson you can look up quite easily at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_(golfer ) . The rest, well, some tournaments didn't really have cuts, and the PGA was still match play for some: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hogan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Snead

[zeg]

Golfers will almost always watch (or record).

Exactly.

Furthermore, Watson was a draw for people who've been following golf long enough to know how awesome it is that he was back with a chance. That's a lot smaller group than the huge influx of fans that got into it in the Tiger era. There's just no way that the Watson story remotely matches the Tiger draw. Personally, I think the Watson story was (or would have been) a lot more exciting than Tiger carving another notch in his putter, but I don't think that's the predominant view. Bummer for Tiger missing the cut, too, but he'll come back. I'm sure he's more pissed than anything else, but he's a smart guy. He knows that he's still recovering, so that will keep this from getting him down. It'll fuel the fire and he'll be back. Next year, maybe he and Watson can throw down in the final round of the Open (if Watson's in it; I read something about an age limit in the paper, but it wasn't explained very well). That'd be the best of both worlds...

[Zeph]

It's good for the sport that Tiger isn't in contention all the time. Let's the other players be under the radar and the fans get to know them better. It's important to the fans that they can relate to something in a player, some minor detail even. Tiger is popular because he's a very charismatic guy and the worlds best of course. Someone using the same clubs as a you may be fun to watch. Someone wearing the same clothes, making a joke you remember being good. Watching a group of people play golf you don't know anything about is plan boring. We need entertainers and players with a little hook that people relate to.

Whenever Tiger's in contention, most of the attention is on him, both on course and on TV. You never get to know anyone else this way. Take the British Open as an example. I'd heard of Tom Watson before, but never seen him play or know anything about him really.

[mcfc_nick]

Exactly.

will he not have gotten in seeing as he was in the top-10?

[nevets88]

Nicklaus missed six ...

Thanks. So it looks like Woods' numbers and the other greats are about the same. I'm guessing the reaction was a little more muted back then, without the 24/7 press.

My favorite quote was from Shackleford, who said something like, Woods misses cut, will sun rise in the East tomorrow?

[BASHERBAKER69]

I suppose if Tiger misses another cut then he might have a serious reason to worry. The fact of the matter is that Tiger's career is all about majors now and winning The Memorial or The John Deere Classic for example doesn't really mean that much to him. Also no one really remembers those tournaments.

The 5 wood he hit of 12 and lost was the start of his problems in the second round- Peter Alliss and co on the BBC mentioned that it was one of the worst shots they'd seen in the championships so far. He needs to sort his swing out because he won't cut it on the tight majors courses. Bethpage was ideal for him being long but he didnt win there becasue he's just making too many mistakes.

My view is that Tiger needs to change something in his team and freshen things up a little bit. Butch Harmon would help him but also tell him a few things that he doesn't really want to hear.