Low Handicap Players: Are you divots STRAIGHT?

[Zeph]

I wasn't addressing the clubface, taking it for granted that the clubface was aimed toward the target. I never said there is not more to hitting a draw, but in relation to the swing path and how to make the ball curve from right to left, the swingpath must go right of the target. Of course a player hitting a draw must square the clubface up to the target, or at least close to. If it was square to the swing path, the ball would go straight right.

I'm discussing swing path and how it relates to what kind of shot you are hitting. You don't need a lower swing path, and I've never mentioned different clubs, though the basics are pretty much the same, but the ball flight will vary depending on which club you use.

There is a thread meant for the discussion on swing path and clubface and how the ball behave accordingly here: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27083

You read more from that paragraph than I wrote. Like I said, I'm talking about the swing path part of a swing, which is essential to hitting a curved shot. This thread is about which way your divots aim, and the swing path determine this, so I was talking about how the swing path works on a shot and what differences there are to hitting a curved shot. There are still other variables and factors needed to hit a shot, never said there wasn't.

[mgresh]

Zeph...not criticizing...just answering the question on whether my divots are straight or not but putting it in terms that are relative to what "straight" really is.

[Zeph]

Hey guys,

I agree that a 100% square swing path is the preferred, but that's not to say nobody is outside it at some point and that the ball behaves accordingly. What people call a "natural" shot shape is a swing path not 100% square. For me, that's an error, since I've struggled with coming over the top, I'd rather err on the inside to outside than outside to inside. Somewhere from 0º to 1º is what I want, never below 0.

According to a Trackman article, Kenny Perry is +6º from inside to outside, hitting a "natural" draw, which means his swing path is not square to the feet alignment. On the other side you got f.i. Colin Montgomery with a -6º inside to outside. Jim Furyk is one of the the best at being consistent with club path and face angle at 0.4 degrees with the driver. For a player like Furyk, if he was to hit a draw which starts right of the target and curve back, he'd have to align his body to the right of the target and close his clubface relative to the body and aim it more against the target. For Kenny Perry, he can align the body and clubface directly at the target, but with his "natural" inside to outside swing path, the ball will curve from right to left as long as he manage to keep his clubface square to the target. There are many variables, but my point is, the divot is a result of your swing plane on that shot. You can't tell the ball flight from it, as it depends on lots of other factors, but the better you have control of it, the better you can be consistent and learn to shape the ball. I've hit shots with a 4i where the divot pointed way left, but the ball flew straight right of where I was aiming. It was not a good shot, poor impact, the clubface was what caused it to go where it did. With low speed, bad impact and very open clubface, the ball never had a chance to start a bit left of the clubface angle.

[Happy Dragon]

I agree that a 100% square swing path is the preferred, but that's not to say nobody is outside it at some point and that the ball behaves accordingly. What people call a "natural" shot shape is a swing path not 100% square. For me, that's an error, since I've struggled with coming over the top, I'd rather err on the inside to outside than outside to inside. Somewhere from 0º to 1º is what I want, never below 0.

If you see Kenny Perry on tv or in person, he aims right on his target, but he's probably square at address.

But thanks for ALL of the explanation. You must be Peter Kostis's Norwegian love child.

[Zeph]

I don't know where Kenny Perry aims, but it makes sense if he aims a bit right as the ball easily can draw too much.

Not sure if that last comment was sarcastic.

I'm no expert, by all means, but I'm not afraid of discussing and expressing my thoughts. I know I can come off hard from time to time, but I always welcome being corrected. I find myself being wrong all the time, but I usually learn from it. I also tend to write a lot and parts of it gets misinterpret by others.

[sean_miller]

Some day I hope to sink more 4 to 12 foot putts per round. Then I'll have a low enough hdcp to comment on my divots.

[Leftygolfer]

Mine face left. I obviously goes out to in. Hence the right side of the course is my enemy.

[billm408]

A divot going left is not necessarily an outside-in swing path.

My swing is inside-in and my divot on a well struck straight ball is always left of target.

[Nickynoodles]

You can hit a ball right at your target without having a straight divot. If i swing inside out and my divot goes right but my clubface is closed ill hit a drw at my target. Divots depend on the shot your playing. I dont draw or fade if i dont have to so my Divots are normally right at my target and thats where the ball goes. But if i had a open or closed face i could still make a straight divot and the ball wouldnt go straight. The only thing you can really get from a Divot is if your hitting thin/fat and if your ball goes straight right or straight left without any hook or slice you can say "ooops i was aimed that way". Handicapp does not really have much to do with your Divots either. You could be the best iron player on here and just not be a great putter and have a 10+ handicapp so thats irrelevant also.

[nlowplacez]

most of my divots are straight.. with a few gay ones here and there

[Nickynoodles]

most of my divots are straight.. with a few gay ones here and there

Haha i like that one. Next time i hit a ball left and a group member ask me if my divot was straight i'll make sure i use that one. Nah its a gay divot.

[Zeph]

A divot going left is not necessarily an outside-in swing path.

That's true, but it's not as left as someone coming way over the top. You can also see the difference of a divot from a swing going outside-inside and inside-inside. The first is going straight left, while the second will start more straight and tail off to the left.

You want to hit the ball first and the divot will be struck at the bottom of your swing, so long as you swing inside-inside on a perfect plane, the divot won't point very much left.

[misty_mountainhop]

Me, I want my divots fractionally right of target. I like a faint draw. I get my divot angle from dropping my hands automatically inside on the way down; this arises because I initiate the downswing with my lower body/hips. I'd rather an in-to-out path as there's a lot of hurt potentially associated with out-to-in.

Basically, if your divots are straightish , the ball goes straightish and you have an 8 hcp, you can't be doing too much wrong. If your practice swing divots are right of target but real divots are left of target, I guess you're starting your real swing by hitting too hard from the top with the hands/shoulders too active and casting the club out a bit. Slow it down - tempo, tempo, tempo .

[Leftygolfer]

I've been thinking about something in regards to this. My divots are all in to out. Even with a wedge. I fight the right side of the course habitually. (I am left handed so I fight a hook). My thought is, how do I get my divots to face more down the line so I don't have to fight a hook? I was thinking if I am slightly open, play with an open clubface to my body but square to target, same swing, no more hooks. It is so hard to change my path. I fight aim all the time, (I aim way closed and come over the top slightly and hit a pull hook NOT PLAYABLE).

I was thinking of Tom Lehman. He plays a push draw and obviously played it very well. I can't think of tour player that plays with a closed stance and pulls the ball. Kenny Perry has a similar setup to Lehman.

Would this work? I think I could develop more control this way than trying to be square.

[Gioguy21]

I've been thinking about something in regards to this. My divots are all in to out. Even with a wedge. I fight the right side of the course habitually. (I am left handed so I fight a hook). My thought is, how do I get my divots to face more down the line so I don't have to fight a hook? I was thinking if I am slightly open, play with an open clubface to my body but square to target, same swing, no more hooks. It is so hard to change my path. I fight aim all the time, (I aim way closed and come over the top slightly and hit a pull hook NOT PLAYABLE).

what you could do, just MHO, is something that i've learned/adapted. I've went to a closed swing, a firm/strong left hand for my grip so that my divot does in fact go outside in, with a slightly opened face which produces me a generic, 5 yard draw. since you're lefty you might just flip it and give it a try, might help you out. (i went to this because i had a tendency to slice or hit low fading beebees...but that was also 5 years and 15 points on my handicap ago)

[chspeed]

A divot going left is not necessarily an outside-in swing path.

This is correct.

I think there is some confusion here as to the direction of divots in relation to swing path. You can have an inside out swing, aim your body left of our target, and as long as your clubface is pointing at the target you'll hit the ball ALONG your body line, and the ball will fade towards the target. This will produce, of course, a divot that points left of the target. This is what most pros do when fading. You cannot tell if someone is coming over the top by simply looking at the divot. You need to see the flight path. In the example above, an out-to-in slicer who sets up the exact same way, will have the same divot but a different flight path. His ball will start LEFT of his body line, and then slice to the right. This is a weak shot, and a glancing blow to the ball.

[Leftygolfer]

what you could do, just MHO, is something that i've learned/adapted. I've went to a closed swing, a firm/strong left hand for my grip so that my divot does in fact go outside in, with a slightly opened face which produces me a generic, 5 yard draw. since you're lefty you might just flip it and give it a try, might help you out. (i went to this because i had a tendency to slice or hit low fading beebees...but that was also 5 years and 15 points on my handicap ago)

I want to get away from aiming left and hitting a pull draw. My misses are horrible. I can't go at a flag on the right side of the green even with a wedge. My eyes are training to aim 15 feet or more left of target.

It is the same if I was a slicer. Most slicers of the ball aim more and more open and this is no fix. All it produces is a bigger slice and worse misses. The more I aim left the more I miss right. Once the season ends I am going to see a pro. I am not going to change my swing until I know what I want and have a way to play better. I believe if I learn to be square or slightly open and still hit a nice draw, I will be better off than what I do now. When I try to hit a fade the ball goes dead straight. That makes me think that if I am slightly open I will be able to hit a powerful straight hit ball. I would like to be able to release the club and still hit it straight and not hook it.