Over....The....Top!

[PingGKEN]

What the heck does one need to focus on in order to eliminate this swing destroying move? In every video of my swing, you can clearly see that the first thing to move, at the top of the swing, is the club head going OTT. I can't stop myself from "hitting the ball". My mind just cant fathom being able to move that ball without some effort from the arms.

Do I need to emulate some sort of a "Ryan Moore" swing move at the top? Should I purposefully feel like I am turning off my muscles in my forearms and wrists and try to trust that it will happen? Frustrating I tell you.

[JtotheD]

Biggest help for me....and I'm no instructor.....has been to try and keep the left shoulder (if your right handed) back as long as you can (ie back to the target as long as possible).

Another helpful thought for me is to not bring the club back too far inside, because that will lead to OTT probably 99% of the time for all us amateurs.

[TN94z]

If you focus on starting the downswing with your hips and lower body instead of your arms, it becomes very hard to come over the top.

[HytrewQasdfg]

Do I need to emulate some sort of a "Ryan Moore" swing move at the top? Should I purposefully feel like I am turning off my muscles in my forearms and wrists and try to trust that it will happen? Frustrating I tell you.

Sounds like you are a "hitter" (arms power swing) instead of a "swinger" (body powers swing).

Before you start taking advice, decide if you want to continue being a hitter (which would imply one type of advice) or become a swinger (which would imply you need to rebuild you swing from the ground up.) At the extreme, swingers don't use their arms at all. They are just considered connections to the club, nothing more. I do a drill where I think of my arms as limp ropes (keep my arms as relaxed as possible.) I use my body to backswing and my arms (and the club) just follow and float up into position at the top. My body turns to start the downswing and my still relaxed, limp rope arms are pulled down and through the swing. You'd be surprised how well you can hit the ball without using your arms at all. And yes, it does "just happen".

[Zeph]

What help me best is working on swing plane. If I lay off the club or position it outside the ball at the backswing, I'm bound to come over the top. I recorded myself swinging and worked on getting a plane where I take it back on plane and from it's parallell and to the top I continue on plane or slightly on the inside, never on the outside. Also work on not throwing the arms out from the top, but letting them drop on the inside.

[nlowplacez]

not flamin or anything, but r u sure u dont have the hitters and swingers mixed up a lil bit. i could be wrong, but maybe theres two schools of thought and theyre opposite. dunno

[HytrewQasdfg]

not flamin or anything, but r u sure u dont have the hitters and swingers mixed up a lil bit. i could be wrong, but maybe theres two schools of thought and theyre opposite. dunno

I'm using TGM terminology here (a good book if for no other reason it defines virtually every golf movement and creates a common jargon for discussion, even if you don't agree with the author's ideas.)

Assume right handed for these explinations. A hitter tends to be right side/arm dominated. They DRIVE the club with their right arm/side. A swinger is left side/arm dominated. They DRAG the club through with their left arm/side. Most modern rotational golfers (with a swing that is dominated by the lower body) tend to be "swingers". Their downswing is initiated from the ground up. Hitters tend to be more upper body dominated. Their downswing is often initated with an arm or upper body movement (in a sense their swing is initiated from the top down.) The two can be mixed and matched to some degree, but in the pure sense they are two different swing styles.

[nlowplacez]

sorry, meant to also actually post something helpful. you mentioned ryan's move, and it may actually be something to think about. sergio also does his lay off at the top to get the club on plane. most two planers, who i would say are a majority of pro golfers, either lay off a bit at the top or simply come down on a flatter plane than going up creating a looping effect. it may be hard to see, but ernie, geoff ogilvie, jack nicklaus, freddy are a couple who come to mind. tiger used to do it and it was obvious, but he has since flattened his swing and the two planes are very similar, but he does still have a slight loop. now these guys dont conciously think about looping their swings, but by starting the downswing with an aggressive or semi aggressive hip turn it naturally gets the club in the slot. i would suggest, since your not a pro YET, that you visualize the loop and actually conciously try to come down flatter. i used to do it and thats about when i started getting really good at ball striking. visualizing the loop will usually actually get your hips to make the right move, just because its necessary for them to clear for you to get on plane. so its kind of a vice versa thing, you can think about it either way. or you could always switch to a more one plane swing, which may or may not be right for you depending on whats natural and your build.

my 2 cents. actually looking up at how much i wrote i guess its about a dollar (worth maybe a penny)

take care and good luck

[nlowplacez]

ok, i see now. ive always heard of swingers being the loose armsy swings and hitters the power hogan type, but ive never really put much weight in all that terminology. so good post

[HytrewQasdfg]

ok, i see now. ive always heard of swingers being the loose armsy swings and hitters the power hogan type, but ive never really put much weight in all that terminology. so good post

A good explination here:

http://www.golflagtips.com/hitting-vs-swinging-part-1/

[flanagan]

Back to the original post . . . . . I echo the person above who suggests to watch taking it back too far inside. Who knows without watching you, what the cause is, but making sure my takeaway is sound is half the battle for me.

[RC]

The over the top move is really pretty simple to understand. On the downswing if the right arm gets higher than the left one too early, the swing center moves from the left side of your body to the right side of your body, and the club has to come outside in through impact. Learn to swing keeping your right arm no higher than on plane (or slightly lower) with the left one and you can fix the over the top move. If you want to draw the ball, get the right arm lower than the left one on the downswing. A square impact has the arms level, and the release then takes the right arm above the left one, (unless you want to hold off the release.)

Find the video with Tiger and Adam Scott side by side on this site (The Sand Trap) and you can see their right arm positions on the downswing. You will see the right elbow slightly under the left arm.

There are two ways to get it right -- one is to stay on plane all the time and the other is to "drop" into the slot. The advice of some to loop into the dropped position is just one way to do it. I think the majority of golfers do have a little "two plane dropping" going on and a backswing that does not get inside too quickly helps those that swing this way. So if you are a two planer or some semblance of a two planer (as most are) dropping into the slot is the natural way to stop the over the top move. Personally, I like swings that have only a slight hint of this action, but there are great players with little to no dropping and with a lot of dropping. The modern swing that many old-timers would call laid off is really just a version of how to get into the flatter rotary swing in vogue today (a great way to generate power.) Sergio is a perfect example, and Tiger keeps migrating to this same move.

[mbole]

If you focus on starting the downswing with your hips and lower body instead of your arms, it becomes very hard to come over the top.

I tried this advice by "Pre Cocking the Hips." All I can say is WOW, that is almost like a instant cure.

[RC]

I get a little overly focused on the importance of shifting weight and turning the hips to trigger the downswing. I actually have worked with people to help them learn how to feel this action by having them try to hit 80 yard 8 irons off a tee. I ask them to use a half swing in which you actually turn the hips the opposited way (just a small fraction of a rotation the opposite way of a normal hip turn) on the backswing and then just drop the club down as you turn forward and through, trying to make contact beside your right pants pocket with both butt cheeks visible from behind. Doing this makes it hard to jerk the club inside and your backswing is so restricted the only option is to use your forward hip turn to generate the power. It is more than a restricted hip turn, it is an anti-hip turn.

You can hit the ball very straight doing this and the distance is surprisingly long. You may think you are going to hit it only 80 yards, but the ball will go almost as far as a full shot -- some can hit it as far as their full swing. The idea is to remove all "hit" impulse from the hands and replace it with the true feel of what turning through the shot can do. It will correct a lot of errors and really teach the idea of the ground up body swing. Try it as a practice drill. If it works, let us know. If not forget it. It has worked for a lot of people and produced some laudable results, even awards and championships. It is not a cure all, but... try it. Note: you have to tee it up or you will top your shots at first.

[misty_mountainhop]

If you focus on starting the downswing with your hips and lower body instead of your arms, it becomes very hard to come over the top.

Bang on. Try focusing on initiating the downswing with something like your right knee kinking inwards towards the left knee or something similar.

[anthony]

I'm in the same boat off the tee (with a driver). I know I'm coming out to in, but can't stop it. When I try to come from the inside I keep hitting the ground first and possibly releasing early. I do better with half swings, but what's the point. My 3 wood is miles better, but still cuts a bit. I've been using it off the tee, but I'm suffering on par 5's because of the lack of distance.

I saw a tip on golf central last night that said to lay a box down outside of your ball in an in to out path. I'm gonna try it at the range. Seems like a great training aid. If you hit the box, you're coming from the outside.

Just realized this was about over the top. Same thing....sorta?

[PingGKEN]

Thanks guys. I know what I must do, but man, something inside of me just makes me want to smack the ball with my forearms and hands. When there is no ball there (practice swing), I feel like a pro: in balance all the way to a nice finish, smooth transition, etc etc. But, put that ball there, and uuuuhhhhhhhhh

[enduro]

You can hit the ball very straight doing this and the distance is surprisingly long. You may think you are going to hit it only 80 yards, but the ball will go almost as far as a full shot -- some can hit it as far as their full swing.

Yes - 100% accurate. If anything it teaches that the real importance in the shoulders and hips is the angle between them. I used to have hips that rotated way too much and cut off angle and got the swing way too flat. I eventually figured that out and now I'll take half swings that go insanely far.

Even in the half swing I'm amazed at how speed is generated with the hip/shoulder tension and release of the club. I think I had an epiphany in this game when I realized a really short swing can create a lot of power. That piece of advice I bolded from you is such a key I can't explain the importance. It is 100% unnatural imo, but it is 100% necessary for a good swing. It's how the ball is struck first, square and down upon. It's how the club gets de-lofted and the power your body has generated can truly be released through the arms and into the club. This was, for me, the most important technique and since the game of golf has changed for me.