forget about body parts

[dozu]

lots of threads lately about hips etc - can't learn this way, can't practice this way,and can't play this way.

should learn by feel... what does a swing feel like? you toss the arm back, and you toss the arms towards the flag stick.... here is the key... imagine the flag stick is 2-story tall, and you wonna toss the arms to grab that flag, right hand in a position to shake hand with flag.

to toss that high, you have to keep the tilt.
to toss that far, you have to use hips.
to toss to a hand shake, the hands will turn over
to toss thru the ball, the hands (or the club if they are grabbing one) have to lag.

golf is so easy.

[iacas]

" Forget about the body parts ... now toss your arms to the flag, right hand in a position to shake..."

to toss that high, you have to keep the tilt (of your body).
to toss that far, you have to use hips .
to toss to a hand shake , the hands will turn over
to toss thru the ball, the hands (or the club if they are grabbing one) have to lag.

Like it or not, we play golf with our bodies, not just some magical thing called "feel" somewhere. The only way to "feel" something is to get the body to do the right thing.

[Marinemike]

lots of threads lately about hips etc - can't learn this way, can't practice this way,and can't play this way.

Sounds like you took all the other stuff and put your own swing thoughts to it. You're still doing exactly what everybody else is doing. I'll remember your simple imagery when I want to teach my son to golf though.

[TN94z]

lots of threads lately about hips etc - can't learn this way, can't practice this way,and can't play this way.

I very much disagree. Without an understanding of good fundamentals, chances are you won't have a repeatable swing. The fundamentals are so easy to practice and to understand, why would anyone not want to learn them?

[dozu]

"

well, I see your point.... but notice that I didn't say what the arm/hip/hands should do individually by themselves.... the feel of tossing takes care of what they need to do.

[sean_miller]

lots of threads lately about hips etc - can't learn this way, can't practice this way,and can't play this way.

Do you mean, "what does [a proper] swing [for my body type and physical ability] feel like? Good question.

The average golfer (who is secure in his manhood) should watch an episode of So You Think You Can Dance . I was "forced" to watch it the past few weeks by the wife. It's obvious right away that some people have more talent in general. Even then, certain types of dance come more naturally to them than others. For the truly gifted, any style of dance can be performed beatifully. Regardless of talent though, they have to understand each individual piece of the dance and have them committed to memory before the music even starts. And they must have it all nailed down before they can perform it on stage. Once the music starts, and the lights come up, there is no time for thoughts of individual movements, steps and timing these things in sync with their partner(s). That bit is done off stage, often alone, in private, and along with countless hours of stretching and other excercise and mental training. The best golfers can turn the basic golf swing into a thing of beauty. By the time they are at this elite level, thoughts of individual movements and steps have long since been replaced by an almost unconcious awareness of the path they want the ball to take, how the club must contact the ball, and how the body moves to make all this happen. Good players may think in terms of individual moving parts while on the course, but I believe the truly great players have moved beyond this to a higher level. I also believe there are great golfers with higher handicaps who have reached this awareness, but are simply not blessed with the same physical gifts. What was the question?

[WUTiger]

One thing we never talk about on here is learning style. This may give us clues on how different people approach building their swing.

A common model for education and employee training offers these styles:
* Visual: Learn by seeing and doing
* Auditory: Learn by hearing and listening
* Kinesthetic: Learn by touching and doing

People tend to rely most heavily on one style, and use the others as a secondary means.

I would suggest that a good swing is built upon sound basics. The catch is how to acquire these basics. I'm a visual , so that's why I guess I'm partial to golf lessons, and reading this blog. dozu might be a kinesthetic , since he has a high do-feel emphasis.

If you're interested in your VAK style, you can take a diagnostic test from the University of South Dakota web site. (FYI, South Dakota has the highest per capita number of golfers of any U.S. state.)
http://people.usd.edu/~bwjames/tut/learning-style/

[GamerJG]

lots of threads lately about hips etc - can't learn this way, can't practice this way,and can't play this way.

i agree with you to a certain extent. i think of maybe a handful of thoughts that i know are the right ones for my swing. but when it comes down to it, you have to just swing the club and hit the shots without too much thought. it's like you are mentally disabling your body which makes it impossible for you to make a correct swing. but i do believe you have to think of certain body parts or "triggers" for your swing and everyone is different. the problem with learning everything by feel is that you can lose your mechanics and it will take a lot longer to fix just with feel. with feel, you may not even realize your mechanic are faulty. i think its a combination of feel, mechanics, and not overthinking. isn't this game fun?

[TN94z]

i agree with you to a certain extent. i think of maybe a handful of thoughts that i know are the right ones for my swing. but when it comes down to it, you have to just swing the club and hit the shots without too much thought. it's like you are mentally disabling your body which makes it impossible for you to make a correct swing. but i do believe you have to think of certain body parts or "triggers" for your swing and everyone is different. the problem with learning everything by feel is that you can lose your mechanics and it will take a lot longer to fix just with feel. with feel, you may not even realize your mechanic are faulty. i think its a combination of feel, mechanics, and not overthinking. isn't this game fun?

The "thoughtless" swing comes after practicing the fundamentals and having them in muscle memory so you can swing without thought. That is the goal.

[GamerJG]

The "thoughtless" swing comes after practicing the fundamentals and having them in muscle memory so you can swing without thought. That is the goal.

a "thoughless swing" sure would be nice. i surely haven't gotten there yet. i see pros that still have swing triggers in their practice swing. look at mike weir, he makes that inside trigger move right before he hits a shot. it's amazing how you can really never take fundamentals for granted in this game. i guess thats what gets us all hooked. we feel there's always something we could work on the next day and it keeps our mind interested.

[TN94z]

a "thoughless swing" sure would be nice. i surely haven't gotten there yet. i see pros that still have swing triggers in their practice swing. look at mike weir, he makes that inside trigger move right before he hits a shot. it's amazing how you can really never take fundamentals for granted in this game. i guess thats what gets us all hooked. we feel there's always something we could work on the next day and it keeps our mind interested.

Agreed and that is pretty much my point. You are right....it doesn't matter if you shoot a 96 or a 66, you will always walk away thinging about what could have been and that is what makes us keep working on our swings and keeps us playing those rounds....good or bad.

[MiniMoe]

If we step back and think about this just a little it's easy to see how simple golf really is. So much time and money is spent taking lessons and trying to learn the "fundamentals" and the correct movements of the golf swing, when in reality there are only a few things that must happen in the swing to produce consistent results. How else could so many people be so good with swings that are not perfect?

1) you have to have a decent grip.. one that can allow the club to be in the correct positions. 2) you have to keep your head behind the ball. 3) you have to have good balance and tempo. 4) this is the most important.... you have to be able to understand the relationship between the club, your hands, and your left arm.. after all, the club is an extension of the left arm.

Golf is a game of target orientation and feel. It is impossible to play well if you are thinking about mechanics because your brain can not think of two things at the same time. it's going to be either your target, or your mechanics. By learning the feel of the correct movements, you don't have to think about mechanics. You can "feel" what you have to do while you focus on the target.

I taught myself my swing with just a few fundamental thoughts. 1) get a good grip. 2) Don't twist the wrists going back and keep the left are straight as long as possible so that it bends naturally and it's not forced. 3) swing down the line and point the club at the target at waist high in the follow through. 4) swing the club like I'm trying to skip a rock or tossing a ball underhand keeping the palm of the right hand facing the target at impact

These are very simple swing thoughts that promoted the correct movements of the club and my body. As long as I had good tempo, everything stayed connected.


There is never just one way to swing a club with good results, and most defenantly learning the golf swing does not have to be made difficult or confusing....defenantly, defenantly.


If you really must fight through and learn mechanics by minute detail, do it in slow motion to solidify the correct movements... and don't just try to fix one thing. Work on all the fundamentals all the time because everything is connected, so changing just one thing might have bad consequences.

[tm22721]

The "thoughtless" swing comes after practicing the fundamentals and having them in muscle memory so you can swing without thought. That is the goal.

Right. Feel comes fast if you forget about positions and mechanics concentrating on the three imperatives that are relatively easy to engrain:

- flat left wrist, ie clubface square to plane - straight plane line, ie club path, right forearm on plane - lag pressure, ie hands ahead of the clubhead Anybody can engrain these in less than 20 hours of practice

[TN94z]

Right. Feel comes fast if you forget about positions and mechanics concentrating on the three imperatives that are relatively easy to engrain:

You would think..haha!! I have been working on getting my wrist bowed at impact for a couple months now! It's getting frustrating.

[dozu]

I just figured out the most effective training aid that is gonna give you a perfect swing - and it's gonna cost you $12

1) get a old tennis racket from yard sale for $5 - better if you get an old wooden racket without the open neck.
2) get a 16 oz baseball swing weight for &7 and slide that sucker on the handle.

now. keep your eye on the spot where the ball would be, and swing this mother.... try to swing it to a hand shake position.. and if you let go, the racket would fly high 45 degrees into the air.

feel the rythm.... feel when you would apply the juice... use the shawn clement 'pushing kid on the swing analogy'.

just engrain this feel, you have a perfect swing - perfect spine tilt, club can't go off plane, can't go over the top if you apply juice at the right time, can't leave club face open because you are trying to swing into a handshake.

there is nothing to fight against, or to hold on. no artificial wrist bow, no artifical holding on to so called lag and at the last moment have to throw it away due to open racket face. no artificial trying to get the sucker on plane - the 16 oz circular piece of metal does that for you. (between the weight and the racket, it's about 28 oz)

everything happens naturally.

shit - I just saved you $1000's of lessions and frustration - now just send 15% of that to my paypal account.

let my 8-year old daughter swing this thing for 30min, now she's got a release that looks like Sorenstam. :)