Slow Play

[nevets88]

Self-absorbed, self-aware, I'm aiming at lack of consideration for others and not taking stock of your own actions, not sitting back and thinking, hey, I shouldn't take 5 minutes to find my ball.

And I've played during off peak times, I have never gotten under 4:30, average is still 5. I live in NYC though, so it is always crowded whatever you do and you usually have to wait... for everything. I admit that the area I am in is an outlier.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

What region are you in?  I couldn't imagine a 6-hour round here in the California Summer.  5+ hour rounds under the hot sun really sap my energy as it is.

You must be inland.  In LA (city or near city, not county) there are tons of courses where even the heat doesn't help by keeping the crowds away.  At a bunch of my regular courses if you're not one of the first 3-4 groups off for the day a sub-4.5 hour round is like winning the lottery, a sub 5 hour round is rare enough that you're psyched about the pace, and a 6+ hour round isn't super common but is no big surprise.  This is true even in July and on weekdays (unless it's threatening rain).

[dsc123]

I play in Maryland (suburbs of DC, not the woodsy parts) at public courses, typically teeing off between 1-3pm on weekends.  My rounds are consistently around 4.5 hrs, give or take 15 min.  I really only get frustrated when the group in front has a hole open in front of them and they're not ready to hit when its their turn.

Also, I find there can be "fast" and slow 4.5 hr rounds, relatively speaking.  I can play in 4.5 hrs without waiting much and feel like its going fine, or I can play in 4.5 hrs and feel like i'm always watching the guys in front of me waste time.  It probably depends on who I'm playing with more than anything, but to me, playing with slow people isn't as painful as playing behind slow people.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SamW

There's new rules at our club which have basically worked, but they only apply on Medal (competition) days (which is most weekend saturdays and about every 4th sunday). For reference Competitive rounds are a maximum of 3 competitors where I play:

1. First group over 2h5m through 9 holes is DQ'd and must stop playing and is banned from next 3 stroke play comps.

2. Groups finishing second 9 in over 2h5m are DQ'd and banned from next 3 stroke play comps.

The rules have been in force 4 months, this month for the first time there were no DQ's. I teed off at 9:38 and by 1:15 I was in the bar. This is so much of an improvement, I've had medal rounds in the past that were 4h50, which starts to effect your concentration and your enjoyment.

What's more although about 5 groups have been DQ'd in the past nobody has made any complaint about the rule or the time length (other than some people saying it should be 3h40 limit instead of 4h10).

[Edit] forgot to say that you can't play the course at all those days unless you are entered in the competition or playing twilight.

Not surprised.  By now most of the club would have been banned, so there's nobody much left to play.

If such a harsh rule was adopted in my Men's Club, we would cease to exist.  We play our competitions on a public course.  Players have too many other options, so why stay in a club which doesn't allow you to play?  We have penalties for violating our pace of play policy, but they apply only to the tournament in question, and they are stroke penalties, not DQ.

[bplewis24]

This may not be the thread for this, but what annoys me more than slow play is speed-demons.  I often play as a single, and many times I try and go when the courses will be empty or when it's twilight.  Often I will get to go out by myself.  Sometimes the course is clear, but most times there are groups of players within 2-3 holes.  I take my time and really go slow through every shot.  It's something I've improved upon greatly over the past couple seasons.  I do it to help my game improve, but also so that I don't run into the threesome or foursome 3 holes in front of me.

What annoys me is when some other single tees off a couple holes behind me, but is playing speed golf and eventually starts putting pressure on me to pick it up to the point that I end up either having to speed up and bump into the groups in front of me, pair up with the single, or allow him to play through (which may be an awkward for me to suggest as it implies I don't want to play with him).  I still play at a reasonable pace for a single (probably a 3 hour round), but I don't get the need for a single to try and play 18 holes at a breakneck, 2 hour pace.

Brandon

[x129]

So the first group of the day should make sure to play in 2h 4 min or so. It will back up the rest of the course behind them and cause a lot of DQs. You probably don't even need to do that. Just play a couple holes early slow and back things up.  Then start playing at normal speed. The poor guys in the back will be worried about getting DQed and be thrown off their game.

Lets make it fair. Every 15 mins an airhorn sounds. They next time it sounds if you are not done with your hole, your DQed.

Originally Posted by SamW

There's new rules at our club which have basically worked, but they only apply on Medal (competition) days (which is most weekend saturdays and about every 4th sunday). For reference Competitive rounds are a maximum of 3 competitors where I play:

1. First group over 2h5m through 9 holes is DQ'd and must stop playing and is banned from next 3 stroke play comps.

2. Groups finishing second 9 in over 2h5m are DQ'd and banned from next 3 stroke play comps.

The rules have been in force 4 months, this month for the first time there were no DQ's. I teed off at 9:38 and by 1:15 I was in the bar. This is so much of an improvement, I've had medal rounds in the past that were 4h50, which starts to effect your concentration and your enjoyment.

What's more although about 5 groups have been DQ'd in the past nobody has made any complaint about the rule or the time length (other than some people saying it should be 3h40 limit instead of 4h10).

[Edit] forgot to say that you can't play the course at all those days unless you are entered in the competition or playing twilight.

[Jmdmbike]

Most rounds take 4 hours, so thats what I expect. At times, 3.5, which is really great. That pace Feels perfect to me, but it's rare. I couldn't imagine 5+ hours on a regular basis. 6 hours is just insane, nobody could possibly enjoy that. Most really slow players I see just don't seem to understand how to play with a decent pace - like don't take 5 minutes to look for a ball, you are not a pro!! - they are totally oblivious to everyone else on the course. Frustrating.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

What annoys me is when some other single tees off a couple holes behind me, but is playing speed golf and eventually starts putting pressure on me to pick it up to the point that I end up either having to speed up and bump into the groups in front of me, pair up with the single, or allow him to play through (which may be an awkward for me to suggest as it implies I don't want to play with him).  I still play at a reasonable pace for a single (probably a 3 hour round), but I don't get the need for a single to try and play 18 holes at a breakneck, 2 hour pace.

On behalf of myself and any other speed golfers you've run into, allow me to apologize if our actions are causing you annoyance.

In my defense, it's a lot easier to deal with waiting when you're in a group of two or more, than when you're by you're lonesome. It can get pretty boring if you don't happen to be in a mood to play 2 balls, practice chipping/putting, or otherwise take your time. So as I single I LOVE being able to get through in 2 hours when I can - it's a rare treat but sometimes if I hit this one particular course on the right day and time (usually mid-afternoon on a summer weekday) I might only come up on one or two groups and if they let me through, it's awesome.

You may be fine taking your time as a single when behind larger/slower groups (I often am as well, when I'm not in a hurry and/or I am in the mood to practice - and in those cases I try very hard not to make the group ahead feel rushed)... but please understand not everyone feels the same way. Sometimes it's kinda nice if we can get through the round early so we can do other things with our day.  I don't expect every group to let me through with a smile, but by the same token I'm not going to dawdle just because I'm afraid the group ahead of me might feel rushed.  If they feel they are, they can either speed up or let me through - and I guess my point is I think that principle applies whenever there's a slower group ahead of you with open space in front of them, whether you or the group ahead is a single or a foursome or anything in between.

I bet if you offered to let a single through who's playing fast enough to rush you, they will be happy you did not ask them to join up with you - they just want to get through. Consider doing that next time - I bet it will be a win-win for everybody.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

On behalf of myself and any other speed golfers you've run into, allow me to apologize if our actions are causing you annoyance.

In my defense, it's a lot easier to deal with waiting when you're in a group of two or more, than when you're by you're lonesome. It can get pretty boring if you don't happen to be in a mood to play 2 balls, practice chipping/putting, or otherwise take your time. So as I single I LOVE being able to get through in 2 hours when I can - it's a rare treat but sometimes if I hit this one particular course on the right day and time (usually mid-afternoon on a summer weekday) I might only come up on one or two groups and if they let me through, it's awesome.

So would it be your preference to play through then?  That's what I'm getting from your post, and I would be fine with that.  Actually, I'd prefer that.  I could finish holes in 5 minutes, but I'm playing deliberately slow (but only 1 ball) for a reason and I'd easily allow anybody (even groups of 2) to play through if it means I can keep playing as a single and work on my game.  But on more than one occasion it was clear that the speed golfer behind me was trying to catch up to me to pair up.  That's when it can get awkward if I suggest they play through.

Brandon

[Jmdmbike]

I recall one round where I was playing as a single, not a busy day and I got the first tee time. Jackpot!! Anybody else?

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

So would it be your preference to play through then?  That's what I'm getting from your post, and I would be fine with that.  Actually, I'd prefer that.  I could finish holes in 5 minutes, but I'm playing deliberately slow (but only 1 ball) for a reason and I'd easily allow anybody (even groups of 2) to play through if it means I can keep playing as a single and work on my game.  But on more than one occasion it was clear that the speed golfer behind me was trying to catch up to me to pair up.  That's when it can get awkward if I suggest they play through.

Brandon

It would usually be my preference to play through, unless I knew the course was busy ahead of me. In that case I'd probably prefer to remain behind you and work on things on my own - I totally understand that mentality. But everyone is different so yeah, a single behind you might be trying to catch you to pair up - in my experience most golfers prefer the company of someone else, even if it's a stranger.  If they ask you if you want to pair up and you prefer not to, you can explain that you're playing slow, working on your game, and politely ask that they play on ahead. I think most people would understand that.

I would just mention that. hypothetically, at some point it could be the case that the single in front of you is waiting on the groups in front of them, you've caught up to him, and groups behind you have caught up to you. In that case it's not really fair for the groups behind you to have to wait on a single, who's waiting on another single - the proper etiquette there I think would be for you to pair up with the single in front of you, so that the players are not so spread out and those behind you can finish their round a little sooner.

But my main point was just that I don't think the mere fact that the single behind you is playing fast is a reason to be put out, since they're not really doing anything wrong (IMO) and that they probably would not mind at all if you ask them to play through.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Jmdmbike

I recall one round where I was playing as a single, not a busy day and I got the first tee time. Jackpot!! Anybody else?

That's only a jackpot for 9 holes on my home course.  If you plan to play 18, and as the first player out you play the front nine that fast.  Then you will be held back at the turn because those back 9 tee times are usually full for the first 1½ hours each morning with 9 hole players.  I have had such situations often in my job as a starter where I had to hold back an unusually fast player or twosome until the 10th tee was open.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by Jmdmbike

Most rounds take 4 hours, so thats what I expect. At times, 3.5, which is really great. That pace Feels perfect to me, but it's rare. I couldn't imagine 5+ hours on a regular basis. 6 hours is just insane, nobody could possibly enjoy that. Most really slow players I see just don't seem to understand how to play with a decent pace - like don't take 5 minutes to look for a ball, you are not a pro!! - they are totally oblivious to everyone else on the course. Frustrating.

Yes, exactly.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

I would just mention that. hypothetically, at some point it could be the case that the single in front of you is waiting on the groups in front of them, you've caught up to him, and groups behind you have caught up to you. In that case it's not really fair for the groups behind you to have to wait on a single, who's waiting on another single - the proper etiquette there I think would be for you to pair up with the single in front of you, so that the players are not so spread out and those behind you can finish their round a little sooner.

Oh, I agree.  In those circumstances I will either join the group in front of me or, if there is a single behind me, pair up with him.

Brandon

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

I would just mention that, hypothetically, at some point it could be the case that the single in front of you is waiting on the groups in front of them, you've caught up to him, and groups behind you have caught up to you. In that case it's not really fair for the groups behind you to have to wait on a single, who's waiting on another single - the proper etiquette there I think would be for you to pair up with the single in front of you, so that the players are not so spread out and those behind you can finish their round a little sooner.

Oh, I agree.  In those circumstances I will either join the group in front of me or, if there is a single behind me, pair up with him.

Brandon

Well then you certainly seem like a reasonable being. And for my part, I'll try to be more considerate of my speed in the future. :-)

[utztech]

Have you guys seen this on golfdigest.com

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/the-tao-of-steve.html

One of the reasons Whitten gives for thinking Bandon Dunes is overrated is that the caddies encourage you to speed up at times.  I have never been to Bandon Dunes so maybe I don't know what I am talking about, but I can't imagine the caddies are doing that if you are keeping up with the group in front of you.  It is attitudes like this guy Whitten has that cause the Slow Play Epidemic (yea I just called it an epidemic, because it is, no hyperbole intended).

This comment by Whitten made me want to play Bandon more than ever.  It must be a true golfers paradise.

Can someone that has been to Bandon comment on the pace of play there and if the caddies are annoying?

[nrage33]

Originally Posted by Jmdmbike

Most rounds take 4 hours, so thats what I expect. At times, 3.5, which is really great. That pace Feels perfect to me, but it's rare. I couldn't imagine 5+ hours on a regular basis. 6 hours is just insane, nobody could possibly enjoy that. Most really slow players I see just don't seem to understand how to play with a decent pace - like don't take 5 minutes to look for a ball, you are not a pro!! - they are totally oblivious to everyone else on the course. Frustrating.

When my group first started playing golf, we actually managed to take 8 hours! hahahaha! Tee'd off at 8am and walked off 18 at 4pm. We let just about every flight behind us play through. Now that I look back all those years, it's amazing we didn't get kicked out after 9 holes. The marshalls did give us some stick for crossing over so late.

Needless to say, we now play at a decent pace: 4 to 4.5 hours on average. Although during the round I do feel that the guys could be a little quicker about their putting etc. Everyone should at least remind their flight mates from time to time to speed up play. If you can keep it under 4.5 hours there should be minimal interaction with the group following you. If we're playing under 4 hours I would imagine that everything is done very quickly, and we're good enough to not send any balls into the rough.

[kathybhylton]

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

I don't think putting out takes much time if your used to it. If I had my choice I'd putt everything. If it is a foot from the hole it takes all of five seconds to go up and hole out. From 2 to 3 feet i'll mark. That isn't a gimme and if you give yourself those you aren't making a valid score and going to miss those when you aren't given them since you don't putt them.

What makes golf so slow is that people just suck. I played yesterday with two of my friends who aren't very good and it seemed to take forever and did. When it takes 4 shots to get on the green on a par four or blading a ball over the green with a chip it takes time.

But 4 hours for 4 people isn't slow. It just depends how good people are. I am not the fastest player in the world but I know my overall time is good. I mostly walk and I play with one other in around 3 and half hours. You can have your routines and not be slow. As soon as the other person hits, you are ready to go. Being fast at golf isn't about not putting out, not having any sort of preshot routine, it is about getting on with it as soon as possible.

Slow play is annoying.

very well said.