How many clubs... really

[whetstone]

I have 12 in my bag right now, but may add as needed.

[sacm3bill]

... Is this a DQ, or is this correct?

There may be a decision on this somewhere, but I would think his score would stand. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary the rules officials in general take a golfer at their word. A good example of this:

Sorenstam/Creamer controversy

[sean_miller]

This is a funny thread - should I DQ my niece at the pitch and putt when she plays the wrong ball for 3 holes? She's only 6, and we're not keeping score, but rules are rules dammit!

The OP is a casual golfer who isn't playing for money, isn't entering tournaments with a fake handicap, and in fact doesn't even claim to have an official handicap.

Who cares if this guy lugs around 40 clubs in a huge staff bag, uses one brand of ball to tee off, another to hit the approach over water and a third to putt. What is it to you guys?

[zeg]

Who cares if this guy lugs around 40 clubs in a huge staff bag, uses one brand of ball to tee off, another to hit the approach over water and a third to putt. What is it to you guys?

What is it to us? He asked what the rules were. So we gave him the answer. Would you prefer that we all just said, "We don't care," in response?

[pittpanther]

The OP is a casual golfer who isn't playing for money, isn't entering tournaments with a fake handicap, and in fact doesn't even claim to have an official handicap.

OP did ask how many clubs he could carry, if he wanted to start submitting his scores for a HC. That's what provoked the rules discussion.

If he's just playing for fun, of course the answer is "as many as you want to carry." We all know that, and so does the OP.

[sacm3bill]

I see some of you beat me to the punch but I'll post what I was writing anyway.

This is a funny thread - should I DQ my niece at the pitch and putt when she plays the wrong ball for 3 holes?

Certainly, if she's in a tournament that requires all participants play by the rules of golf. Obviously that's not the case in your scenario, but that *is* what this thread is about

: proper application of the rules, specifically with respect to whether a score can be legally submitted.

The OP is a casual golfer who isn't playing for money, isn't entering tournaments with a fake handicap, and in fact doesn't even claim to have an official handicap.

He said he did not have an "established" handicap, but his actual question was whether he could "submit scores", so that he wouldn't be "indexless". I'm not sure what he's referring to there if it's *not* establishing a handicap. And whether he plays in tournaments or for money is not relevant - the point is simply that he would not have an accurate handicap.

Who cares if this guy lugs around 40 clubs in a huge staff bag, uses one brand of ball to tee off, another to hit the approach over water and a third to putt. What is it to you guys?

I don't care and I doubt anyone else does either. But the original question was, to paraphrase, "Is it legal to submit scores for handicapping purposes if I'm not playing by the rules?". That answer is no.

[sean_miller]

So is he right? Am I doomed to wander forever; indexless?

Yes.

Recreationally it seems more fun to have'm all. The word "set" should mean something; that you need to get the complete set!

Sometimes it is, but make a mental note of which ones either let you down or never come out of the bag - if you're planning on getting an index.

How many clubs do you carry when you are playing for fun? I hear Arnold needs two bags for his.

When I'm deciding which clubs to keep for an upcoming "important" round I'll take a couple extra and not turn in the score. For purely "fun" rounds I'll take less than 12 because the bag's easier to carry that way.

I read that Arnie would also make adjustments to his clubs mid-round. He sounds like a total cheater. After 50 years, do you really plan on getting a handicap? Really? Then drop down to 14 clubs already!!

[sean_miller]

OP did ask how many clubs he could carry, if he wanted to start submitting his scores for a HC. That's what provoked the rules discussion.

Of course I see your point (and the point of other posters) but I still find that some posters' millitancy makes me chuckle.

[Chief Broom]

Scores are meaningless if you carry and/or use more than 14 clubs...

I understand where you are coming from with this, but I must respectfully disagree. He's playing golf, just not as the game of golf as is currently being stipulated by the USGA and the R&A.; And while it is generally agreed that those two governing bodies stipulate what is the modern game it is incorrect to assume that their will and decisions are infallible or that they encompas the game as a whole. Case in point the governing bodies of "golf" change their minds regarding what is legal and what isn't. The current imbroglio concerning grooves is an example of the rules changing for various reasons and not always remaining consistant over time (Ping made clubs with grooves deemed illegal, then those grooves became legal, and now we're back again to where they are illegal again!). If we assume that only the USGA and the R&A; can say what is golf then the very people who invented the game weren't playing it at all, but rather their own quant variation of the game. In fact golf is a game with many variations. Variations that encompas the needs and desires of those who choose to play it. And lets face it the rules of golf are somewhat onerous. I think its a safe assumption to make that most of us here would qualify as golf geeks. We enjoy the minutiae of golf, but not everyone who plays is like this and while it may not be correct to classify them as strict adherents to the rules of golf they still are golfers. They still support the sport. Clubs aren't stopping them from playing and equipment manufacturers aren't refusing to sell to them because they have too many clubs in their bag.

[tjy355]

...

12

Don't understand the club obsession.

[sacm3bill]

I understand where you are coming from with this, but I must respectfully disagree. He's playing golf, just not as the game of golf as is currently being stipulated by the USGA and the R&A...;

Well stated Chief, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Just because rules change over time, or are onerous to some, doesn't give us license to break them.

At least not when submitting scores for handicapping purposes, which was the context in which all my responses have been. If OTOH you're not keeping a handicap and, for example, take a drop where you went out of bounds, I wouldn't go so far as to say you're not still "golfing".

[Greg]

Ive only got 12 clubs, driver, 3 wood, 3h, 4h, 5h, 6-pw, 56 sw and putter

[2bGood]

I am on the other side of things - I CARRY (I really do carry) 12 or 13 clubs for most rounds. I have 16 clubs to choose from, but for the most part a 56*, 52* p-4 iron, 21* hibred, 3 wood and driver (13 clubs) works great for me. I find the 3iron is not required with HB in the bag and the 60* wedge gets me in more trouble then good.

[Fourputt]

I do not have an established handicap; never bothered in 50 years of playing golf. In the last week two additional clubs have entered my bag, a 5 wood and a 6 iron, later today I am picking up a 7 wood. That will make 17 clubs. My friend says that I cannot even submit scores now because I have too many clubs. Heck I am thinking of adding a 4 iron too. Recreationally it seems more fun to have'm all. The word "set" should mean something; that you need to get the complete set!

Never more than 14.... usually less. Right now I have 14, but I'm probably going to drop 2 of them. I almost never use my 5I or my 58° wedge, so why have them? I can do what they do with other clubs just fine. Just a suggestion.... If you ever want to improve that 30 handicap, try playing with fewer than 14. Learn how to adapt clubs for shots they weren't actually intended for. Play a few rounds with just 6 or 7 clubs and you will find that it helps your shot making skills and your course management/shot planning skills. Instead of automatically grabbing your 8I for that 140 yard shot, you might actually stop and think... should I maybe try and cut a 7I to that right pin? Or maybe a 3/4 punch with the 7I to keep the ball below the breeze? If you force yourself to try them when nothing is on the line, then you have more confidence when you actually need the shot. You'll be a better golfer in the long run. Besides, it's fun to pull off a shot that you didn't know you had in the bag...

[DaSportsGuy]

I carry 14 clubs.

4-9 Irons, PW, LW, GW, Driver, 3&5 Wood, 2 Hybrid, and putter.

[FHopper]

I enjoy reading everyone's responses... all of them. My friends want me to join the muni men's club. I have always been a single shot golfer; every shot is a separate event to be enjoyed, I would not be this kind of golfer if I had shown any talent at golf as a kid. Instead though I found I loved the game for the rare opportunity it holds to let a person stand on a beautiful piece of ground and occasionally see a ball do something special. Now I am much older and find my generation has caught up to my skill level. It would be a lot of fun to begin playing tournaments other than best ball events. I am surprised more people don't play with a lot of clubs when not playing competitively but of course I assume everyone rides like me.
I am going to schedule my first lesson in 50 years tomorrow and give golf by rules a shot, this forum is going to help me get that done. It really helps to hear why everyone feels the way they do. So looking at my bag I guess I will park the 5 hybrid and new 6 iron; I did not buy the 7 wood today.
Oh and are the rules of golf arbitrary and capricious, sure but what rules aren't.

[MiniMoe]

If you are playing for fun, take as many as you can carry, but if you want to get better, it's important to learn to hit different shots with the 14 you are allowed under the rules. It will make you a more complete golfer.

[Travtex]

Currently, I have 13. I have a set of Nickent 3DX-HI on the way via UPS that will make it 14 with the 10i if I make the switch.