The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[scopek]

Originally Posted by iacas

Just because Dave and Grant have a swing that's similar to S&T; doesn't mean 5SK teaches everyone to have an S&T-like; swing.

We teach plenty of golfers who don't appear to have an S&T; swing.

There's not. This is the first we've heard anyone saying that, and I'd say more, but that's off topic for this thread.

I probably shouldn't have brought it up. I think the DVDs and instruction are great and they've really helped my swing. It's just my impression as a layman.

[jclark]

Played yesterday. Did a little experimenting. I made it feel as if I was leaving 60% of my weight on my lead foot. Did a normal backswing and pressured my lead leg into the ground on the downswing. I was hitting slight draws that were going 10 yards further than normal. Even my drives were nice.

[scopek]

Originally Posted by jclark

Played yesterday. Did a little experimenting. I made it feel as if I was leaving 60% of my weight on my lead foot. Did a normal backswing and pressured my lead leg into the ground on the downswing. I was hitting slight draws that were going 10 yards further than normal. Even my drives were nice.

That's funny, because I went back to doing this as well this week. In addition to some other things that has really helped (working on letting my writs hinge and relaxing my body, making sure my left shoulder turns down and in), I'm striking much better then before. Given the information that the 5SKs have put up, I except that I'm likely still shifting weight and putting more pressure to my right foot on the backswing. However, I FEEL as if I'm keeping my weight on my left, if not moving more weight to my left foot, on the back swing and then doing everything I can to get all the weight to my left by impact. Perhaps that's not what's happening in reality, but the feel has helped.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by Gaudencio Obial

l need to try the Stack and tilt method but l don't  know any instructor near me--  in Citrus county  or even in Ocala. Can you help me?

By the book and get a camera to video yourself.

[i-Guy]

Check out this... http://www.stackandtilt.com/

[fatmcb1]

Does anyone know of a good S&T; instructor in the Dallas Fort Worth area? The closest authorized instructor on stackandtilt.com is nowhere near me.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by fatmcb1

Does anyone know of a good S&T; instructor in the Dallas Fort Worth area? The closest authorized instructor on stackandtilt.com is nowhere near me.

http://purestrike5sk.com/instructors.php

[scopek]

Hi,

In the S&T; DVDs, they recommend setting up with the butt of the club pointing at the base of the zipper. When I do this, it forces me to have the toe of my club a bit off the ground. Does anyone who is familiar with S&T; know if this set up would (or should) lend itself to having a flatter lie angle in the clubs? Also, any general comments about a flatter lie (vs. standard or not) angle S&T; would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scopek

In the S&T; DVDs, they recommend setting up with the butt of the club pointing at the base of the zipper. When I do this, it forces me to have the toe of my club a bit off the ground. Does anyone who is familiar with S&T; know if this set up would (or should) lend itself to having a flatter lie angle in the clubs? Also, any general comments about a flatter lie (vs. standard or not) angle S&T; would be greatly appreciated!

It's not how the club rests at setup, but how you return the club at impact (with shaft bending and droop and all sorts of things going on) that matters.

Your lie angles could need to be flatter OR more upright. We have no real way of knowing. Odds are they're fine, and they're generally not something you really have to worry about until you're a pretty good golfer (low to mid single digits?).

[mmoan2]

Just listened to the first 30 min or so of the 4 disc set of S&T.; I have one question (for now)- isn't it difficult to maintain your balance if you are always moving your weight forward and never backward during any part of the swing? Also, can't you generate more power if you are able to incorporate a "right side load" and then still transfer your weight forward? I was a college baseball pitcher, and I think about how they say a fastball pitcher "rears back" to get extra speed. That means when you go into step 2 of a windup, you really load lots of weight on to your right side (for a righty) and push off the back leg down off the mound and forward. Swinging a bat is the same thing. You load up on the back leg (at least momentarily) and transfer weight forward as you swing. If you go from 55left-45right to 60-40 to 70-30 and so on, how can you ever plant off of your back leg to drive forward for power?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by scopek

Hi,

In the S&T; DVDs, they recommend setting up with the butt of the club pointing at the base of the zipper. When I do this, it forces me to have the toe of my club a bit off the ground. Does anyone who is familiar with S&T; know if this set up would (or should) lend itself to having a flatter lie angle in the clubs? Also, any general comments about a flatter lie (vs. standard or not) angle S&T; would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!!

Rule of thumb is that the Grip should intersect with your belt if your clubs are properly fit.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Just listened to the first 30 min or so of the 4 disc set of S&T.; I have one question (for now)- isn't it difficult to maintain your balance if you are always moving your weight forward and never backward during any part of the swing? Also, can't you generate more power if you are able to incorporate a "right side load" and then still transfer your weight forward? I was a college baseball pitcher, and I think about how they say a fastball pitcher "rears back" to get extra speed. That means when you go into step 2 of a windup, you really load lots of weight on to your right side (for a righty) and push off the back leg down off the mound and forward. Swinging a bat is the same thing. You load up on the back leg (at least momentarily) and transfer weight forward as you swing. If you go from 55left-45right to 60-40 to 70-30 and so on, how can you ever plant off of your back leg to drive forward for power?

It may be a feel, but it's not what you actually do (or what you actually should do). It's a lie.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64993/weight-forward-using-swingcatalyst-and-sam-balance-lab-to-explain-pressure-throughout-the-swing

http://thesandtrap.com/t/65681/s-t-2-0-dvds-and-pressure-weight-forward-an-examination

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by iacas

It may be a feel, but it's not what you actually do (or what you actually should do). It's a lie.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64993/weight-forward-using-swingcatalyst-and-sam-balance-lab-to-explain-pressure-throughout-the-swing

http://thesandtrap.com/t/65681/s-t-2-0-dvds-and-pressure-weight-forward-an-examination

Those links are awesome. Thanks for doing this. It's a tremendous help. I feel like Nicholson in Batman - "Where does he get all of those wonderful toys?"

[yurself]

I began reading the posts in the sandtrap about a month ago.  At first it seemed like I was reading a foreign language.  The first eye-opener was to discover the ball flight laws.  Sorry, most of the books written prior to 2000 used the older “understandings” to explain ball flight.  I have not really paid attention to any modern explanations.  My last golf lessons were in 2003 when I paid for a 10 lesson series in an indoor video facility and the place went bankrupt(Doors Shut) after my second lesson after all the legal wrangling they re-opened 6 months later and I got access with no lessons as a consolation from the emergent ownership.

I have stopped reading golf magazines for tips, they seem to work for a day or so and its right back to the struggle or they are so fantastic as to be unbelievable from the get-go.  As to instructors, there are a lot of motor-mouths out there who are so impressed with their knowledge that they take a novice student and fill him with six chapters of theory without giving just two or three things he should work on until his next lesson.

In 2007 I bought a course on the internet called Golf Swing Control.  The stress is on balance in the golf swing and learning to feel where the head of the club is by taking your eyes out of the equation.  Set up to the ball while looking down the fairway, tilt slightly to the right, keep your weight on the inside ball of your feet.  With your weight already loaded on the right the transition move becomes all important. That is the place where I break down, at the top of the back-swing I am supposed to feel my stomach muscles tighten and magically I will make a move to the left foot so that I can pivot on my left hip to accomplish the finish. As they say on Okinawa, nevva happen yo! I have spent 5 years trying to get a consistent finish.  I am straighter off the tee, but never long and I have to be very careful to keep an upright swing path going back or I can seriously yank it left.

This year has been the worst as I have stopped playing as often my scores have climbed back over 100 on bad days and 90ish on great days, only my short game and putting to save me with some help from a more consistent hybrid striking.

Now that you have read the autobiography, I decided to explore some different methods.  After poking around here and learning some of the “NewSpeak” (at least to me) I decided to get a copy of the Stack and Tilt and see what I can do.  The book is on its way from Amazon, but I could not wait, so armed with some remembered Youtube lessons I went to the range today.   From a technical point of view it was not pretty; most of the shots went right. Obviously my face is open at impact, but I could not seem to close the face.  I found that my ball position seems to move back from where I would normally hit it. As I was taking the club away seriously inside for my normal swing it is no surprise to see all the right movement. But the surprise was in the distance and crispness of the ball strike.  I have been taught that the bane of a good hit was a straight right leg, but when I did that and connected I was getting 180 in the air from a 5 iron for a club that I normally figure for 165 max that is impressive for me.

My driver is a Nike SasQuatch; the face is narrow up  and down and a tad wider than a normal driver.  I have been teeing it lower so I would not go under it when I drive.  Today I found that I needed to tee it higher because I was actually hitting it on the upswing (I’ve never experienced that, used to hate hitting from mats with the built in high tees) Once again the distance for me was mind-boggling; I was getting 250 in the air with release on the roll.  A few of them rolled to the back of the range at 325+.  I even closed the face in an exaggeration and got a 250 yard pull down the left side.

So the distance is certainly inviting a much closer look. I am setting up with my hip pushed out far to the left, handle forward from my body, my right leg almost straight or straight and then pivoting around my right leg on the back-swing.  By making an effort to stand up left side on my through swing after impact, I am exploring places I have never been in the finish.  My former swing usually got simply in front of me a little to the left of center, and never over my shoulders.  Amazing… now I need to get the book and flesh out the swing, get my direction woes solved and find a coach in the Denver area to work with.  The swing feels different with the left hip “extended?” and the straight right leg but the rest of my “fundamentals” still remain, maintaining a good triangle connection with arms and shoulders, obviously I am now getting good lag whereas before I know I was casting.

I am sure you did not really want to read an essay, but I had to put it in perspective, I have never seen such results from a few simple changes.    Comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks

[Hacker James]

This is a topic that has been hotly debated for several years now so no need to go into the pros and cons at this juncture. I also bought the book for 99 cents on EBAY but not for the purpose of changing my swing. What I discovered were a lot of excellent tips, fixes, and drills, that can help just about anybody's game.  Most of the premises discussed in the book are really not all that new. Just about all have been used in one way or another in nearly every top golfer's swing dating back several generations of golfers. What is/was new is the study that went into it, the drawing in of all the best of the earlier players, combined with modern day technology to measure and record exactly what was happening.  I found myself doing pretty much what the book details when I reviewed my swings on video without even realizing that I was employing the techniques discussed in the book, albeit not exactly. The method encourages consistency in ball striking, a repeatable swing arc and so forth.  Some do not recommend it for those who already have a good sound swing, but for somebody just starting out from ground zero, they probably could not do wrong by following it to build a swing in a shorter period of time.

In any event, good luck in your new find and am happy it is working out for you.

[yurself]

I am full of BS! I went back to the range the following day and checked with the desk, the yardage markers are set for winter-time distances predicated on the mats not the summertime grass lines.  I knew that on some level, but I was making such good contact I somehow let myself believe I was getting 40+ yards when in fact I was getting 15+ .  It is still a good swing if I can consistently create that kind of lag and good follow-through on my drives.  I will find that out today when I play a tough 18 with lots of long par 4's.  My apologies for anyone's leg that got stretched.

[retgi]

jacas,

I'm 65 retired and hit my first golf ball less than two years ago.  I almost gave it up within the first six months when I stumbled across S&T.; Bought the book and DVD set and a few weeks later I was much more consistent and actually made a hole-in-one!.  I'm self taught and would like to improve and break ninety with SnT.  Can you recommend any SnT instructors in the Ocala or Tampa Bay areas as I'm right in the middle in Homosassa....thank you....

[minitour]

jacas,

I'm 65 retired and hit my first golf ball less than two years ago.  I almost gave it up within the first six months when I stumbled across S&T.; Bought the book and DVD set and a few weeks later I was much more consistent and actually made a hole-in-one!.  I'm self taught and would like to improve and break ninety with SnT.  Can you recommend any SnT instructors in the Ocala or Tampa Bay areas as I'm right in the middle in Homosassa....thank you....

James Hirshfield is in the Orlando area now, as I understand.  While I wouldn't say he's a "stack and tilt" instructor, I do know that he knows the pattern, he's a great instructor and will have you improving in short time.  I highly recommend the trip to see him.