Why Doesn't Tiger Hit it Farther?

[colin007]

from what ive seen, tiger is among the top fastest swingers (along with jb holmes and buuba watson) yet he trails the leaders in distance by more than 10 yards. why is he not hitting it as far as the others? is it cos he doesnt always use driver? does it seem to anyone else that he should be hitting it farther? or am i way off?

[sean_miller]

One factor might be the events he enters. He seems to enter the more prestigious events which are usually on a bit tighter courses.

[jamo]

is it cos he doesnt always use driver?

I don't think they count 3-woods and such in official driving stats. Do they?

[ControlJunkie]

I don't think they count 3-woods and such in official driving stats. Do they?

Yes they do, and that's partly the reason why he's just a little behind them. Driving distance is driving distance, regardless of what club is used. I think the most I saw Tiger hit driver in a single round this year was 3 times. It was mostly all 3W and 5W. It's just that others now pull driver more, and the rest of the field has also worked considerably harder to get to try and keep up with Tiger. See

this year's driving stats and then swap to 1997. You'll see that his distance hasn't really changed over the years, others just moved ahead.

[jamo]

Yes they do, and that's partly the reason why he's just a little behind them. Driving distance is driving distance, regardless of what club is used. I think the most I saw Tiger hit driver in a single round this year was 3 times. It was mostly all 3W and 5W. It's just that others now pull driver more, and the rest of the field has also worked considerably harder to get to try and keep up with Tiger. See

Thanks, never knew that!

[colin007]

Yes they do, and that's partly the reason why he's just a little behind them. Driving distance is driving distance, regardless of what club is used. I think the most I saw Tiger hit driver in a single round this year was 3 times. It was mostly all 3W and 5W. It's just that others now pull driver more, and the rest of the field has also worked considerably harder to get to try and keep up with Tiger. See

woukld that imply that tiger hasnt gotten as much from technology advances as the rest of the tour?

[ControlJunkie]

Thanks, never knew that!

No problem. Actually, as a prime example, I remember seeing it live on TV at the Masters when Tiger and Phil were paired together on the final day. On one hole, Phil outdrove Tiger by a solid 20-30 yards, and tons of people were quick to dog out Tiger's distance. The thing a lot of people didn't realize at that time was that Tiger hit 3W while Phil hit driver. To further emphasize the difference between back then and now, watch the Golf Channel for highlights from the 1995 US Amateur were Tiger was in the finals vs. Buddy Marucci. I think it was either the 17th or 18th hole, where Buddy hit driver, while Tiger hit 3W. Tiger outdrove him by something like 40 yds, if not more. It was insane. Like I said, the competition has just worked harder to try and actually compete with him.

woukld that imply that tiger hasnt gotten as much from technology advances as the rest of the tour?

Very very interesting question. I could certainly see how those numbers would lead one to believe that. I guess another way to look at it, in order to further back that up, would be to find pure driver distances (as in no 3W, 5W, or irons off the tee) somehow, along with pure driver accuracy, and then see how Tiger matches up with the rest of the field. Unfortunately, I dont think those numbers are easily obtainable. One thing I'd like to point out is that this is a prime example that proves that distance isn't everything. Tiger was 14th on tour this year in driving distance, yet he was the winningest player on tour.

[LongballGer]

Couple of reasons.

Accuracy and putting the ball in the right spot off the tee is Tiger´s no1 concern. Thus he rarely goes all out on his shots.

The main reason why he doesn´t hit it as far anymore is because he is hitting down on the ball while jb and bubba are hitting up on it. He does this because it keeps the ballflight down and the ball curves less, but he sacrifices quite a bit of distance. Furthermore Tiger plays the highest spinning ball on tour.

Tiger isn´t a pure power player anymore like he was in 2000. He is more of a strategist now instead of playing the bomb and gauge game.
Trust me, if he wanted to he could hit it at least as far as bubba or jb.

[ThomasG]

There was an compared Tiger and JB Holmes i think. Tigers launch angle is lower than holmes and Holmes was right at or near optimal. I'll try to find the aticle but it was sometime in 2009 before my subscription ran out around May or June.

[pinhigh27]

No problem. Actually, as a prime example, I remember seeing it live on TV at the Masters when Tiger and Phil were paired together on the final day. On one hole, Phil outdrove Tiger by a solid 20-30 yards, and tons of people were quick to dog out Tiger's distance. The thing a lot of people didn't realize at that time was that Tiger hit 3W while Phil hit driver. To further emphasize the difference between back then and now, watch the Golf Channel for highlights from the 1995 US Amateur were Tiger was in the finals vs. Buddy Marucci. I think it was either the 17th or 18th hole, where Buddy hit driver, while Tiger hit 3W. Tiger outdrove him by something like 40 yds, if not more. It was insane. Like I said, the competition has just worked harder to try and actually compete with him.

I don't know about this. Tiger and phil both hitting driver aren't in the same ballpark. Phil hits it at least 20 yards farther. In your example, tiger might have actually hit driver. This is because Tiger usually hits a low spinning driver, versus the other longer hitters which hit a more optimized high launch low spin shot.

[RC]

Tiger was, at one time, relatively longer (compared to other players) than he is today. Length was very important to him, and it seemed he cherished the idea of being long. Then swing changes and game management entered his thinking much more and his game changed. His old swing had an amazing amount of weight shift and a "devil may care" hip action. He moved a lot on the backswing, and unloaded with all he had. Today, he plays more of a strategic game and the distance issue is not as big a factor as it once was. I know in the past being the longest of the great players was a big deal for Tiger... but now I think that is secondary to him. Tiger actually asked about his length compared to Jack's in his prime and did not like the answer that Jack would be longer with the same ball and equipment -- but that was the opinion of a very knowledgeable tour champion. Today, I don't think that answer would bother him as much. Winning majors is his goal, but length may still bug him -- I don't know this last conjecture for a fact, but suspect it. You can tell because he does not talk about length much anymore, and sort of admits there are longer guys on tour.

[jamo]

Tiger and phil both hitting driver aren't in the same ballpark. Phil hits it at least 20 yards farther. In your example, tiger might have actually hit driver

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?10 1 Phil averaged 1.7 yards more than Tiger in 2009, and that is including the fact that Tiger pulls woods and irons Much more often than Phil. http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?102 Not to mention the fact that in 2009 Tiger hit 64.29% of faiways, while Phil hit 52.21%.

This is because Tiger usually hits a low spinning driver, versus the other longer hitters which hit a more optimized high launch low spin shot.

I'm not sure about a low spin driver, but Tiger does play the highest spinning ball on tour, and losses some distance for it.

http://www.golf.com/golf/features/flash/ballguide3.htm l For instance, according to the above link, Tiger's ball, the Nike One Platinum (he didn't switch when Nike came out with new ones) goes an average of 239.1 yards, while Phil's ball, the Callaway Tour ix, goes an average of 253.4 yards, for a difference of 14.4 yards.

[misty_mountainhop]

woukld that imply that tiger hasnt gotten as much from technology advances as the rest of the tour?

I would think this has more to do with his accuracy with the driver. No point being huge off the tee and in the rubbish. He doesn't come across as very accurate with his driver.

[Three Putt]

For instance, according to the above link, Tiger's ball, the Nike One Platinum (he didn't switch when Nike came out with new ones) goes an average of 239.1 yards, while Phil's ball, the Callaway Tour ix, goes an average of 253.4 yards, for a difference of 14.4 yards.

That's with only a 90mph swing speed. In the 120's I bet the results are much closer. Nike states that the One Platinum is made for players that can compress the ball.

I think Tiger was much faster and longer when he was younger, maybe it's the knee or maybe it's too much recreation involving ambien the night before? Phil outdrives Tiger now a days...couldn't tell he likes it except for that sh-t eating grin of his.

[jamo]

That's with only a 90mph swing speed. In the 120's I bet the results are much closer. Nike states that the One Platinum is made for players that can compress the ball.

Alright, most companies make 2 balls, a higher-spinning one and a lower spinning one, the higher spinning one is usually meant for lower swing speeds. The high spinners are the Nike One Platinum, the Titleist ProV1, and the Callaway ix. I'm omitting Taylor Made because there has been confusion over their golf balls and, quite frankly, i don't quite know which is which, even though i play the TP Red. The low spinning balls are the Nike One Black, the Titleist ProV1x, and the Callaway i.

Looking at the Golf.com link i posted previously, the low-spinning balls all go farther, but the difference is much larger with Nike. The Titleist difference is .6 yards, the Callaway difference is .3, and the Nike difference is 14.4 yards. My point is, your argument falls apart because the difference is just so much greater with Nike. As for the 90 swing speed thing, go to this website , and roll your courser over the middle golf ball box. The middle one is the One Tour D, basically the One Black, while the left one is the One Tour, which is comparable to Tiger's ball, the Nike One Platinum. When you roll over, it says the One Tour D is "Ideal for golfers with swing speeds 90+ mph. Nothing is said about swing speed for the One Tour.

I think Tiger was much faster and longer when he was younger, maybe it's the knee or maybe it's too much recreation involving ambien the night before?

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?101 Look at this link, and change the year using the dropdown menu. Once again, wrong, look at the data. In 1997 Tiger dominated the field and won the Masters, his Driving distance that season? 294.8 yards, 2nd on Tour only to John Daly. In 2001, a year most consider to be Tiger's best and most dominant, he averaged 297.6 yards off the tee, good for 4th behind Daly, Brett Quigley, and Davis Love III. In 2005, sometimes considered an off year for Tiger, he averaged 316.1 yards, 2nd on tour behind Scott Hend. In 2008, with a broken leg and a torn knee ligament, he averaged 294.3 yards, the same as 1997, the only difference being that he could walk without a limp in 97. (got this off Tiger's website , i guess he didn't qualify for rankings because he didnt play enough. And in 2009, a year in which Tiger returned from surgery, he averaged 298.4 yards. Not what he did a couple years ago, but more than any year before 2003. The point is, he has gotten longer, but so has everyone else. Also, i would like to add, it seems to have been established that in the last few years Tiger has pulled 3-woods and irons to take stress off his knee and because his driver accuracy has been terrible, thus his stats are probably a little lower than in 1997, when he was more apt to pull driver and cut loose. Now, i don't have data for this, but just watch him play, he rarely ever pulls driver, which brings me to my next point...

Phil outdrives Tiger now a days...couldn't tell he likes it except for that sh-t eating grin of his.

Years Tiger has out-driven Phil- 07, 06, 05, 04, 02, 01, 00, 99, 98, 97,

Years Phil has out-driven Tiger- 09, 03 And like i have said, Tiger pulls driver much less than Phil. Hell, Phil is known for his go-for-broke attitude, and his driver gets him in trouble all the time, yet he still hits it.

[gatorfan]

When tiger can hit a 3 wood almost 300 yards off the tee consistently and more accurate then why not just use the 3 wood. He is one of the best, if not the best long iron players and his short irons are just amazing. He even says he does not swing all the way because he would rather be in the fairway. J.B. Holmes can hit it a country mile but he only hit 48% of the fairways on the pga tour this year. So i think there is a reason behind tiger's madness.

[jamo]

To further emphasize the difference between back then and now, watch the Golf Channel for highlights from the 1995 US Amateur were Tiger was in the finals vs. Buddy Marucci. I think it was either the 17th or 18th hole, where Buddy hit driver, while Tiger hit 3W. Tiger outdrove him by something like 40 yds, if not more. It was insane. Like I said, the competition has just worked harder to try and actually compete with him.

Did you watch that on Golf Channel a couple days ago? It was on at like 8 am, i guess they're doing a week-long Tiger-thon. Odd timing...

edit: i'm guessing that is where, due to your blog post.

[Three Putt]

Alright, most companies make 2 balls, a higher-spinning one and a lower spinning one, the higher spinning one is usually meant for lower swing speeds. The high spinners are the Nike One Platinum, the Titleist ProV1, and the Callaway ix. I'm omitting Taylor Made because there has been confusion over their golf balls and, quite frankly, i don't quite know which is which, even though i play the TP Red. The low spinning balls are the Nike One Black, the Titleist ProV1x, and the Callaway i.

A link to the Nike website really doesn't prove anything...it's their website. Yes I am right Phil outdrove Tiger last year...and that means nothing. Driving distance means absolutley nothing on the PGA tour (Corey Pavin).

I guess you are trying to paint me as a Tiger hater...I am not, the guy is awesome and it's between him and Jack on who ends up the greatest. Like I said, 4 or 5 years ago Tiger really went after it off the tee, his swing was faster, and was one of the longest on tour, no doubt. He's playing a little different game, and he seems to be just fine with the new Tiger.