Arms at impact

[Zeph]

I did some research on this a while ago. Well, more lurking at Youtube really. What I found was that pretty much all the pros have the left arm aim somewhere from the middle of the ball and feet to a almost direct line with the club at impact. Most was closer to the middle than the ball.

The position of the wrists I assume is what makes the difference. Some keep the angle of the wrists, creating an angle between the club and arms, some don't. I'd be surprised if it did not affect lie of the clubs.

[Shanks A Million]

nope..can't say as I have. I tend to look at my divot and work backwards from there. Maybe I'm stubborn but I feel a lie board is a crutch that hides a poor golf swing. Or maybe I'm just cheap!!

This is like going into a shoe store, and buying a pair of shoes cause you like the look, but then simply asking for the average size. Crazy! Would you say that measuring you for shoe size, then trying the shoes on is a crutch? Hell no! Why should golf clubs be different?

Every tour pro hits from a lie board, and regularly checks their clubs for lie angle, and every golfer should hit from a lie board! My eyes were opened big time after doing this.

[Fatphil]

did someone just call me crazy? NP u should hear what my wife calls me...ha ha

I realize what good players do. my point is that while I'm a single hndcpr my swing is still inconsistant vs a really good player. What I'm interested to hear is an analysis of club lie at address vs club lie at impact (which by extension the shaft angle at both points). The lie board is OK for a pro as their swings are highly grooved and one or two degrees is significant...I just don't buy it for the weekend golfer whose shaft angle at impact is 6" higher than address on one swing and 2" on the next, then back to 4".

On any given day my hands come in a little high or a bit low at impact vis a vis address. To have my clubs bent depending on how I am hitting on any particular day seems extreme. Even within the same round I notice a change...as the round goes on and I get tired (or too many beers) my hands get higher and higher at impact.

[Shanks A Million]

did someone just call me crazy? NP u should hear what my wife calls me...ha ha

Yes, but the reason you are inconsistent is because you haven't been fitted. The club fitters already know this stuff, which is why they collect so much information. The idea is to match your height and wrist to floor measurement, then figure out your swing style. They then bend the clubs to match, and this will help you learn to be consistent. If your clubs are not properly fit, your swing will develop faults to compensate for the equipment.

[Fatphil]

yeh I basically agree with you on the fitting aspect (if u can find a decent one) but my question is more swing theory than fitting...(which by the way the thread is "arms at impact")

Like u say they measure your height and hands to the floor to get your angle at setup my confusion is the relationship btw that measurement @ address vs. impact. Not what my F'up swing does but how is should be done properly..

[Shanks A Million]

yeh I basically agree with you on the fitting aspect (if u can find a decent one) but my question is more swing theory than fitting...(which by the way the thread is "arms at impact")

From what I've learned, the relationship is that the toe will be a little off the ground at adress. The idea I believe is to get a comfortable angle at adress, and not to ground the club so it's flat. That's what I'll be working on soon.

[Fatphil]

From what I've learned, the relationship is that the toe will be a little off the ground at adress. The idea I believe is to get a comfortable angle at adress, and not to ground the club so it's flat. That's what I'll be working on soon.

yeh I think I kinda agree with you there,,,but I've never seen the topic discussed...very odd as the moment of impact is truely the only critical position.

[Zeph]

The club should point the toe up at address. The club is at a different angle at impact than address. In addition, you can see that the club bends slightly on the downswing, making the angle difference even bigger.

[Shanks A Million]

Cool, that's what I thought!

[Fatphil]

way cool Zeph! great post..it seems btw 4-9deg is the range.Would love to hear a pro or a fitter comment on that. The David Toms picture is very interesting as u can actually see the change in lie at impact vs address.

and of course the smallest derivation is Tiger..

who's the guy in the top right in the white hat?

[Zeph]

Up left: Will MacKenzie
Up right: Jay Williamson
Down Left: Duh...
Down right: David Toms

It would have been interesting to see high speed shots with better resolution of the club in those positions I've cut out of Youtube-videos. They show the club angle and flex, but seeing the lie angle would also be useful.

[Shanks A Million]

Cool. Can someone better explain "toe down effect?"

[iacas]

Cool. Can someone better explain "toe down effect?"

Also called shaft droop. Here's a picture:

[Shanks A Million]

Also called shaft droop. Here's a picture:

Hmm, I had thought that was from the digital cameras reading the image downward, like you see in phone videos.

What's the reason for this?

[iacas]

What's the reason for this?

When a golfer swings down the clubhead accelerates on a path and the center of gravity of the clubhead (the sweet spot) tries to align with the arc (plane) of the swing. Since the CG of the clubhead is "above" the shaft the toe drops.

Imagine a senior women's flex shaft attached to an oversized clubhead. Grab the grip end and the sweet spot of the clubhead and pull apart. The shaft bends to try to get those two points in a straight line - to increase the distance between them. The lie angle flattens between a quarter and two degrees based on shaft flex (esp. tip flex), swing speed, lie angle, clubhead length, etc.

[Shanks A Million]

When a golfer swings down the clubhead accelerates on a path and the center of gravity of the clubhead (the sweet spot) tries to align with the arc (plane) of the swing. Since the CG of the clubhead is "above" the shaft the toe drops.

Ok, so the COG of the club is not inline with the shaft of the club. That makes perfect sense, wonder why I didn't know that.

[Fatphil]

LOL "Shaft Droop" sounds like a viagra ad but I googled "shaft drop in golf" and got 15,000 hits..Thanks for the terminology...I never heard that term before!!

Now we get back to the question of fitting.....OMG can the guys workin at Edwin Watts/GG or Alf's understand this...most of them can figure out how to turn on the computer.

[wolverine_man]

Also called shaft droop. Here's a picture:

FALDO is the man!!