Lift, clean and place??

[kleraudio]

Got a rule question here.

Im playing Sunday but they are calling for rain all of saturday meaning the course will be nice and sloppy. Whats the deal with lift clean and place and if we play that way, can I still post my scores??

Thanks!

Jim

[Zeph]

Source: USGA Handicap Manual
Scores made when a local rule for preferred lies and/or winter rules is in effect must be posted for handicap purposes unless the committee (preferably the Handicap Committee in consultation with the committee in charge of the course) determines that conditions are so poor that such scores should not be posted. Individual players playing the course do not independently decide whether scores are acceptable because of this condition. If an individual decides to apply some form of this local rule and the committee has not invoked such a rule, the player's score is acceptable and must be posted for handicap purposes.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handi...anual/Rule-07/

[kleraudio]

So assuming lift clean and place is in play, how does the rule work. Mark my ball, clean it, and where do I have to replace the ball??

I have a feeling that I'll be getting better lies than the original lie especially if I have a complete mudball that indented itself into the fairway. Just wanna make sure this is acceptable.

Thanks Zeph

Jim

[Zeph]

I belive the area within you place the ball is decided by the Tournament Commitee.

Source: Section 7-1
Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

Improving the lie is kinda the whole point about this rule. Yes, you can lift, clean and place the ball perfectly perched up on the grass. The lie does not have to be bad for you to use this rule. It can be used on every shot if you want, as long as it's according to the rules (closely mown area etc.).

It's up to the commitee to decide whether the advantages with this rule is acceptable or not.

Make sure you mark the ball before you pick it up to replace it, or you'll be penalized.

[James_Black]

you have to place it within 6" of where you marked it.

edit:

Are you allowed to brush against the grain of the grass to make it stick up and place it on that.
I'm not sure about that.

[Clambake]

The lift/clean/place rule is also typically applied ONLY on closely mowed areas, i.e. it applies on the fairway and fringe but not in the rough, where you have to play it as it lies.

[kleraudio]

  Clambake said:

The lift/clean/place rule is also typically applied ONLY on closely mowed areas, i.e. it applies on the fairway and fringe but not in the rough, where you have to play it as it lies.

Ahhhh, thanks for sharing that. So in the rough, play it as it lies, even if its a severe mud ball?? Thats good to know. I know the reaction I will get if I ask the clubhouse if its lift/clean/place. He'll say, "do whatever you want". Public courses, they really dont care.

Thanks for the input everyone. So only tight lies get the lift/clean/place treatment sunday then. Jim

[Zeph]

That is incorrect. The Commitee decide how much of the course the rule applies to.

Source: USGA Rules Appendix I, Part A, 4a
Course conditions that might interfere with proper playing of the game, including mud and extreme wetness, warranting relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green or permitting lifting, cleaning and replacing a ball anywhere through the green or on a closely mown area through the green .

Before someone asks:

Source: Definitions

"Through the green" is the whole area of the course except:

a. The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played; and
b. All hazards on the course.

"Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

[James_Black]

  kleraudio said:

Ahhhh, thanks for sharing that. So in the rough, play it as it lies, even if its a severe mud ball?? Thats good to know. I know the reaction I will get if I ask the clubhouse if its lift/clean/place. He'll say, "do whatever you want". Public courses, they really dont care.

What zeph said

Just ask before you go out about the rulings

[jamo]

Also, only in YOUR fairway.

[iacas]

  jamo said:

Also, only in YOUR fairway.

The rules make no such distinction, no.

Tee boxes also count as a closely mown area.

[kpaulhus]

In my Sunday game this applies to balls in the fairway. Nothing in the rough can be cleaned. Basically what Zeph said.

But I believe the term used loosely is "rollin em"

[jamo]

  iacas said:

The rules make no such distinction, no.

Really? Every time i play in a match or whatever they always say that. Maybe it's a local rule or just something made up.

[HoosierGolfer]

I don't think you can just decide to LCP on your own. The course has to call the rule into play for the day. My home course VERY rarely has ever called LCP. On league night if it is wet, they will place a sign at the first tee, and 99.99999% of the time it will say "PLay it down" as the game was intended to be played. JMO of course...

[Jay-Bird]

  iacas said:

The rules make no such distinction, no.

If you hook your ball into the adjacent fairway - it's not a "fairway" hit. I think in accordance with equity, a wrong fairway cannot be played LC&P.;

You cannot play a shot from an other hole's tee box either.

[iacas]

  Jay-Bird said:

If you hook your ball into the adjacent fairway - it's not a "fairway" hit. I think in accordance with equity, a wrong fairway cannot be played LC&P.;

That's not how equity works.

And yes, you can play from another hole's tee box. A closely mown area includes all closely mown areas. The only place from which the rules tell you not to hit a shot (well, except ESAs) is on another hole's putting green. The rest of the course is fair game.

[Fourputt]

  HoosierGolfer said:

I don't think you can just decide to LCP on your own. The course has to call the rule into play for the day. My home course VERY rarely has ever called LCP. On league night if it is wet, they will place a sign at the first tee, and 99.99999% of the time it will say "PLay it down" as the game was intended to be played. JMO of course...

If you are playing in a competition,then the local rule must be enacted by the committee. If you are playing a casual round, then it's up to your group how you want to do it (your group is essentially its own committee). Such scores are allowed for handicap because it can only lower your index to play every shot from a favorable lie, not raise it. Thus you hurt your own chances in a competition if you maintain such a vanity handicap.

I play the ball as it lies all winter long, except that on sloppy days I may clean a large clod of mud from the ball when it lies in closely mowed areas. If I do so, I will then replace the ball exactly where it was so that I don't gain any other advantage. Even this I only do rarely.

[kleraudio]

I hit a shot dead middle of the fairway last week, a day after it rained really good out here. And I couldnt find the ball. Turns out it dug itself about 4 inches deep into the fairway?? Should I take a penalty for hitting an absolutely perfect shot that hit the middle of the fairway?

How would that work?

Thanks!

Jim