My UGLY swing...

[Shanks A Million]

I'm finally ready to fix a nagging problem that I've been having since day one.

First thing, I've managed to get the hands deep, and the swing is pretty decent now, contact is almost always solid or pure, and I can even hit the old nemesis fairway woods and hybrids with confidence now. My little problem is one that's been embarrassing me for years (no, not my weight... although I'm working on that... Man I'm hungry.)

I've shortened the backswing a lot to work on these new moves, and the shoulder turn is about 45° short of where it normally is. You can see here, I only bring the club back to about 12:30, and turn the shoulders back about 60° (I normally come to 1:30, and turn the shoulders about 110°). Don't worry about this, the length of my swing is still undetermined, but this short backswing is very easy to control, and doesn't force my head back as much. I also have that little unusual move where I move my weight front and keep it there for the whole swing. I might change that one day.

I take the club back flat as a pancake, and I hate it. It comes on plane going down, and I hit a slight draw for the most part, either that or I can hit a slight push-fade too. I am not 100% sure how to fix this. I've tried breaking the hands much earlier, and that looked better, but not perfect. I had to give that up when my hands began to come up over my head in favor of fixing that. I got rid of that, and now my arms form the proper triangle (this is a 9 iron or so, so it's a little steep).

What do I do? How can I, once and for all cure this embarrassing habit? It's like smoking or World of Warcraft, so easy to get addicted (although I've never tried either of those...), so hard to break. Please, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[david_wedzik]

I'm finally ready to fix a nagging problem that I've been having since day one.

Honestly - that part is a pretty simple fix - you need to hinge/cock your left wrist at a faster rate (if you hands are out in front of you in "grip" position this is the feeling of hinging your wrist up and down so the left thumbnail moves at your nose) and feel like you have NO rotation in your wrist joints and forearms during the entire first half of the backswing. Now...for you this will feel like MUCH MORE hinge as I am describing and ZERO rotation (Rickie Fowler early in the takeway) in those joints. This will definitely get the club steeper and in the position you are looking for. Honestly I don't think it is overly flat (a little I agree)...it is more that the wrists don't hinge at the same rate your arms are swinging/shoulders are turning, etc. Do this to what feels like and extreme and film it and you will like you what you get (...have you heard about evolvr?? sorry...couldn't help it ;>)).

Dave

[jlund]

6.7 handicap?

[shortstop20]

That is quite possibly the oddest follow through I've ever seen. No offense intended.

[westcyderydin]

dont try to turn back so far. everybody wants to get to parallel but thats a bunch of crap. look at camilo vegags or jb holmes. im 23 and i dont go back that far either. that last 20 degrees of turn is the part that is so hard and causes pain and bad positions and bad swings. just go back as far as is comfortable and then let you tempo hit the ball. then once you get your tempo down you can put some more balls behind it if you need to. look up don trahan. a lot of his stuff is pretty good.

[senorchipotle]

6.7 handicap?

lol... take a look at shanks' divot patterns, moment of impact, and ball flight. he's obviously a good ballstriker, so the rest is irrelevant. have you ever seen lee trevino swing a club? i see hackers every day with swings much prettier than his, but he's got six majors, and they have none.

[Three Putt]

little to quick at the transition to downswing. Slow the down swing a little and build a little more lag, looks like you are going at it hard at the top and trying to square up at limpact. Try practicing 3/4 punch shots with a 7 iron and develop into the longer clubs with that. Are most misses slices?

[Three Putt]

looks like a scoop at impact on that video. Try placing a tee about 6 inches in front of the ball at 1 inch high, try to swing through that tee for extension.

[senorchipotle]

looks like a scoop at impact on that video. Try placing a tee about 6 inches in front of the ball at 1 inch high, try to swing through that tee for extension.

he's hitting ball first, so he's not scooping it.

shanks: try this. grab a 6 iron(my favorite club), and put the ball back in your stance in line with the inside of your back left foot. now try to hit it as high and straight as you can. to do this you must, a)keep your head behind the ball, and b) extend along your swing path in the backswing instead of abruptly coming inside of it, unless you want to push it of course. essentially, there's no way you'll be able to dip your shoulder down way in front of the ball and still be able to make good contact. but be sure that you still slide your hips forward so we're not trying to fix a reverse 'c' next time. it also looks like you've got a bit of chicken wing action in your follow through which makes your finish look awkward. this could be a result of decelerating through impact. don't do that. hope this works.

[Shanks A Million]

6.7 handicap?

Does that bother you?

That is quite possibly the oddest follow through I've ever seen. No offense intended.

It is, and it's got a purpose. My arms don't tend to like straighten all the way, and my whole body severely lacks flexibility. You notice the head turn on the backswing? That's also lack of flexibility. The thing is, when the followthrough happens, I have to just "let go" of the club or my arms will be bent backwards, so I get this weird, sort of wet noodle followthrough and finish. I think it adds some character.

dont try to turn back so far. everybody wants to get to parallel but thats a bunch of crap. look at camilo vegags or jb holmes. im 23 and i dont go back that far either. that last 20 degrees of turn is the part that is so hard and causes pain and bad positions and bad swings. just go back as far as is comfortable and then let you tempo hit the ball. then once you get your tempo down you can put some more balls behind it if you need to. look up don trahan. a lot of his stuff is pretty good.

I don't go anywhere near parallel. I turn my body a lot, but my club a little. It

looks like I turn more than I do because my head is forced back. Pretty annoying, isn't it? Oh well. The top of my full on backswing:

little to quick at the transition to downswing. Slow the down swing a little and build a little more lag, looks like you are going at it hard at the top and trying to square up at limpact. Try practicing 3/4 punch shots with a 7 iron and develop into the longer clubs with that. Are most misses slices?

Most misses are hooks, and occasional pushes. Pulls and slices are pretty rare.

looks like a scoop at impact on that video. Try placing a tee about 6 inches in front of the ball at 1 inch high, try to swing through that tee for extension.

Good catch. It's not actually a common thing. I keep close track of that. My divots start about 1-2" after the ball with a 5 iron. I regularly check the position of the divot compared to the ball. On the day this was filmed, I marked the ball, and took some swings. The divot only started about 1/2" in front of the ball, less than usual. I was a touch flippy that day, I guess.

[Shanks A Million]

Honestly - that part is a pretty simple fix - you need to hinge/cock your left wrist at a faster rate (if you hands are out in front of you in "grip" position this is the feeling of hinging your wrist up and down so the left thumbnail moves at your nose) and feel like you have NO rotation in your wrist joints and forearms during the entire first half of the backswing. Now...for you this will feel like MUCH MORE hinge as I am describing and ZERO rotation (Rickie Fowler early in the takeway) in those joints. This will definitely get the club steeper and in the position you are looking for. Honestly I don't think it is overly flat (a little I agree)...it is more that the wrists don't hinge at the same rate your arms are swinging/shoulders are turning, etc. Do this to what feels like and extreme and film it and you will like you what you get (...have you heard about evolvr?? sorry...couldn't help it ;>)).

OK, I'm thinking, counter rotate wrists (so the glove logo points down at the ground as I'm going back, or that's what it feels like?), and hinge them early? My camera is AWOL, so I'll have to grab someone else's to film tomorrow. Will give it a try though.

[senorchipotle]

well, it looked like you were hitting ball first, perhaps you weren't. but no matter, that is easily fixed. still, if you do the exercise i described it should help with the other issues.

[Shanks A Million]

well, it looked like you were hitting ball first, perhaps you weren't. but no matter, that is easily fixed. still, if you do the exercise i described it should help with the other issues.

People do tend to see a lot of things "wrong" with the swing that are not. Educated observers rarely do. As you pointed out, the ball is hit first, the divots are clean and the strikes are very consistent. I get a lot of people claiming I reverse pivot (which I don't, I merely keep the weight left the whole time), and another lot of people claim I chicken wing through impact (which I must do, there's simply no way for me to get that arm straight at impact without injury).

As an instructor once said to me; you are built in such a way that you lack the flexibility most people have, and therefore most people will assume that you are swinging the club wrong. Almost no one who has been the range and seen me hit balls questions the swing as much, which is nice. I almost never get the "hacker advice" anymore. If someone tries it, I pull out my longest iron (2 or 3, depending on what I'm carrying), and say, "O.K. let me take a swing first and you tell me what to change." I then proceed to hit a half dozen pure 3 irons down the line, high, and watch as they stop on a dime past the 200 marker, making a nice clean "thump" as they land. That usually turns that advice into a, "hey, did you know you do this/that?" Yeah, I know. I'm certainly no pro (ahaha, far from it!), but I'm not bad enough that I friggin' hit it fat, or reverse pivot, or any of that other hacker stuff. I keep very, very close tabs on my swing, and take daily video. I do regular drills to ensure I'm not making poor contact. I hit well over 700 balls a week.

Honestly - that part is a pretty simple fix - you need to hinge/cock your left wrist at a faster rate (if you hands are out in front of you in "grip" position this is the feeling of hinging your wrist up and down so the left thumbnail moves at your nose) and feel like you have NO rotation in your wrist joints and forearms during the entire first half of the backswing. Now...for you this will feel like MUCH MORE hinge as I am describing and ZERO rotation (Rickie Fowler early in the takeway) in those joints. This will definitely get the club steeper and in the position you are looking for. Honestly I don't think it is overly flat (a little I agree)...it is more that the wrists don't hinge at the same rate your arms are swinging/shoulders are turning, etc. Do this to what feels like and extreme and film it and you will like you what you get (...have you heard about evolvr?? sorry...couldn't help it ;>)).

Dave

Actually, to point out something else, I believe my problem is also that I hinge very late in the swing, nearly at the top. Would you say that's true? What other fixes do you want me to make?

[iacas]

People do tend to see a lot of things "wrong" with the swing that are not. Educated observers rarely do.

Dude, I like ya and all, but c'mon. There's a lot you can fix, and "educated observers" can find plenty to work on.

Is it as bad as some people are likely to see? No. But don't post asking people what they think if you're not going to listen.

and another lot of people claim I chicken wing through impact (which I must do, there's simply no way for me to get that arm straight at impact without injury).

How's that?

As an instructor once said to me; you are built in such a way that you lack the flexibility most people have, and therefore most people will assume that you are swinging the club wrong.

Not to pry, but can you gain some flexibility? Some of the "lack" is due to weight, and again not to pry or anything, but can you lose weight? Your head could stay on the ball more if your shoulder wasn't pushing your chin back - your shoulders are steep enough. I don't see that as a likely flexibility issue.

If someone tries it, I pull out my longest iron (2 or 3, depending on what I'm carrying), and say, "O.K. let me take a swing first and you tell me what to change." I then proceed to hit a half dozen pure 3 irons down the line, high, and watch as they stop on a dime past the 200 marker, making a nice clean "thump" as they land.

So you're a bad putter? C'mon, I play to a 1.x and don't know if I'd "pure" six three-irons in a row. Let's not overstate things. You posted this thread for a reason - perhaps I misunderstood the reason. If the reason was to get actual advice, you're not helping things. If the reason was to post an ugly swing so you could claim some sort of Jim Furyk territory, your handicap doesn't back it up. I like ya and all, so maybe that's some tough love, but what's the point of the thread? To get help or to argue with a bunch of people who mean well about how good you say you are?

[inthecup]

I would also get your legs and hips going faster. At impact your hips are 90 degrees from the target they should start to turn to the target at impact. I think this helps with lag also.

[david_wedzik]

Dave

Yes...that's true...that's exactly what I was pointing out. Hinge at a faster rate the way I explained (may very well feel like a counter rotation to you for a while). Again...I don't think you are really all that flat it just looks that way because of the slow hinging action.

Other fixes? I don't like to have someone thinking of too much at once if possible - but this goes along with the piece I discussed with you...be sure the handle of the club works much more inward in conjunction with the hinging/zero rotation). This will put your left arm on a better plane and more across your chest (it is likely that in trying to "not" be flat you lift your arms up rather than move them in...you can be plenty inward with the handle and still have the SHAFT on plane). What I have described puts you more on the arc required by a side on sport such as golf. Remember its not croquet ;>). Dave

[iacas]

What I have described puts you more on the arc required by a side on sport such as golf. Remember its not croquet ;>).

Apply force along the plane. Any force you apply that's not within the plane of the golf swing is, by definition, wasted force and force you'll need to counter-act later on.

[trog2233]

Wow again no offense man but with that swing that's amazing that your a 6 hdcp. Great job as far as that. I actually chuckled a little when i saw the video. You need to work on your flexibility big time! It would be alot less stress on your wrists if you can turn thru the ball rather than flip your wrists on the follow thru.